youngdad

Depends if you are incorporated or not. You can look up corporate tax rates and personal income tax rates on the CMA website.

30% would be about the average of the clinics I have visited. I hear tales of woe; only 10 years ago the clinic I was at was at 41% overhead. Yikes. Now we are a lean machine, our support staff are happy as far as I can tell, we are not overcrowded but space is getting limited. Our facilities are nice. We are always looking to cut costs but not corners. Things can change in a hurry. If a doc retires and you cant find someone to take his/her place suddenly their overhead share needs to get paid by everyone left.

I work Mon to Thursday in the office. See about 25-30 pts per day on Mon/Tues/Wed, and about 15 per Thursday with the afternoon for paperwork (disability pension applications, lawyer requests, workplace forms etc.- you get paid for these!) I have 1 hour booked off for lunch but I use most of that to catch up from the morning notes and errands. That leaves about 20 mins of relaxing, eating and socializing with other docs in my clinic which is just right. I'm a new grad so it has taken quite some time to get more efficient. I am doing now in 8.5 hours of work what took me 12-15 hours of work for the first 4 months. (Expect late nights doing labs and notes!) I probably should have just taken less pts and less money... No hospital work. Every 7th week I do a Friday and Saturday "doctor of the day" walk in clinic for patients of our group. Same day appts only. I see maybe 15-20 pts over 3-4 hours those days, typically quick and easy appts with less "baggage". No Sundays. The week that I do the Friday Saturday clinic I am "on call" for the group which really only means I have to take calls for urgent labs that come in for our group after hours. I have been on call a few times now and have only been called once and it was for a high INR that came in at 7pm. Cake. 2-3 Fridays per month I work at an urgent care centre. The other Fridays I either take off, get caught up on admin stuff (banking, paperwork etc). This is enough for me. I have kids and I am very busy in my church community volunteering. I am spent by the end of most work days and weeks. A bad day can run you over, a bad week can really run you over. But I am finding as time passes I am getting much more efficient and sane at the end of the day. The other thing I have noticed is that if I take a few less patients per day I am more efficient and accurate with my billing and my bottom line does not suffer at all. I estimate I will bill around 240,000 from the office over 12 months, with an additional 8000-12000 in private fees for paperwork and 18,000-24000 in urgent care shifts. But remember its not what you bill, its what you take home... Example 1: Doc 1 loves his life, works 40 hrs per week and bills 250,000. He pays 20% overhead, so = 200,000 pretax income Doc 2 works his bag off and his wife leaves him, bills 350,000. He pays 40% overhead, so = 210,000 pretax income oops Example 2: Doc 1 checks out 2 clinics knowing he will bill 250,000 in a year Clinic 1 has 25% overhead so 187,500 pretax income Clinic 2 has 30% overhead so 175,000 pretax income A 5% difference in overhead might not sound like a lot, but I bet 12,500 does. (Over 1000 bucks a month!) Same work, more pay. Overhead is a big deal and it doesn't stop when you take a vacation... Find a clinic that is well managed. Look for under 30% overhead. PS. Incorporate.

I have been in office practice now for about 9 mo. You gotta mix it up. I do some urgent care centre shifts (its like emerg light, just a step up from WIC) Its great. I do 2-3 shifts per month. I see lots of acute medicine. The shifts are 8 hours and pay a bit less than an office day but no overhead, so really its a bit more than the office. The variety is nice and keeps my skills up a bit. I work hard when I'm there but honestly it feels like a day off sometimes...

Thanks JewelLeigh for your excellent post. And thanks to all who have contributed so far. I am learning lots from this thread! Let's continue to update as we go...

I've hear of some docs doing this. You could do a day/half day of it in your office (I doubt you would have more need to do more). Or do a few appts at the end of the day. Not sure if this is an insured service or not. I will look it up. This actually has me curious. I will see what I can find. I also want to mention that this thread is not about money for me. Its about opportunities and about variety and about time. Money is an important factor. I have a certain standard of living (not extravagant) that I want to achieve plus charitable donations plus save for retirement etc and I have a rough number I need to take home to have that. I want to work hard, but I don't need more than that figure and I won't work to the bone to go past that. If there is something that gives my career variety and pays awesome then I have just bought myself TIME. Time to book lighter, time to take completely off, time to stay fresh and focused on giving good care to my patients for a long while. End rant. Time = money = time = freedom = happiness =

From Wachaa "It's lower than you cited for teaching FYI http://med.ubc.ca/fi...oved-by-FEX.pdf FP onc training programs are often advertised in the BCMJ. It's also a +6 month R3 at some schools. And again probably not paid as well as 6-7 pts/hr office work. BC hospitalist work tends to pay around $130/hr only. It's possibly different if you were in a smaller GP-run cancer agency. However, BC Cancer only pays their oncologists/ radiation oncologists ~230-330k/year so it's unlikely you'll top that as a GP oncologist. (source: Vancouver Sun public sector salaries) And also, since it's usually a full-time day job, you won't be doing it to "supplement" an office practice unless you like to be really busy." http://postgrad.familymed.ubc.ca/e3-enhanced-skills-programs/category-2/#Onc

List updated. Some great additions, thanks guys and gals. Anyone know more about Prolotherapy?

My school was always clamouring for more family docs to take on students. Not sure if this is the same across Canada. Its a pretty big country.

Nice additions to the list. 1)I know some docs do GP onc. Don't know the training. I think GP oncology would be pretty cool. Its a pretty intense relationship. Many of your patients would swiftly die. Others may be cured from a scary diagnosis. You would learn lots about humanity. It could also wear you down or get boring if you weren't in it for good reasons. 2) Teaching lectures at my residency program does not pay all that well. Its not terrible; I think its 90$ per hour. But thats per lecture hour. It takes time to prepare, travel to and from the lecture site etc. Compare that to seeing 5 patients in the office for that hour... Teaching med students is different. You can usually have a med student along and have your normal office day, or just a touch lighter if you are a good preceptor and like to teach. That pays $2000 per week (I think. Source ?) for 3rd or 4th year med students at UBC. Can a anyone confirm?

Haven't checked this in a while. Any other thoughts?

Hey I'm an R2 in family. I'm rolling a few ideas around for something NON R3 that I could do to spice things up when I get practicing and maybe find something extra income without selling my soul (ie. something that actually meets a medical need. i.e. not cosmetics) I am sure this has been discussed before but I was hoping to get an updated list of some things you guys have seen and hopefully we can get some ideas that are new. Add something new or add detail to anything you see on my list that lacks and I will try to update it on my first post. Specifics are awesome (income numbers or where to get certified for something etc) For the category of pay I have kind of just been arbitrary. $ = Roughly regular GP office work $$ = more but not double $$$ = A lot $$$$ = Surgeon money $$$$$ = ? $$$$$$ = Rapper What: Sports med Training required: Diploma. (Minimum number of hours as a GP, then pay a fee and take an OSCE type exam) Pace: Pretty chill Pay: $$ Other considerations: Work with athletes can be rewarding and frustrating. Depending on your community, potential for lots of "less than appropriate" referrals (old folks with chronic MSK issues vs actual SPORTS med) What: Cosmetic injections (botox, fillers etc) Training required: Pay $ and do a course. Not sure how much and for how long. ("Thousands" Source: Silverjelly) Pace: Pay: $$$$ (or so I imagine?) Other considerations: You are slime and you know it. jk What: Surgical assistance Training required: no extra Pace: Pretty chill Pay:$ Other considerations: Pretty obvious. Nice if you like it and the OR staff are good. Can wreck your office day/plans if surgery goes longer. What: Prolotherapy (Dextrose trigger point injections) Training required: Pace: Pay: Other considerations: Emerging for chronic pain. Not sure of the latest research. What: GP Dermatology Training required: Diploma. (A few ways to do it. Seems most are minimum number of hours as a GP, bunch of online coursework, exams) Pace: Busy Pay: $$-$$$ I think? Other considerations: No GP knows anything about skin so you are a bit of a pimp. Lumps and bumps clinics are awesome if you like to keep procedural skills buff. What: Urgent care center shifts Training required: no extra (I think) Pace: Usually very hectic Pay:$$$ ($800-1000 per 8 hr shift in some places w no overhead) Other considerations: No overhead. ER type excitement with no long term relationship. Limited by equipment present/level of care/number of beds etc. Usually no overnight work! Sessional or FFS. What: Addictions Training required: Fellowship or nothing. (St Pauls has a 1 year, I think RCH has one too) Pace: Slow Pay: $$ Other considerations: Sessional. Methadone and suboxone licence can be valuable. Meets a huge need. Potential for very personally rewarding work if you are a patient person. What: GP Oncology Training required: CCFP only? No extra training? (Source: Real Beef) Pace: I'm guessing pretty chill Pay: $$$-$$$$ Other considerations: See Real Beef's post below. What: Teaching med students or residents Training: No extra Pace: You decide Pay: Lectures $. Taking on a student $$-$$$ Other considerations: You can be the preceptor you always hoped for when you were a dirty 3rd year. Or, on the other hand, you can make the poor young suckers pay for all the shame based learning you got by dishing it out on them. (Please don't do this)

Thanks for posting. I won't be an anesthesiologist, but it is still helpful to read stuff like this from people on "the other side." Best of luck in your career!

De ideabus non est disputandum I Guess thats 5. I still like it.

Accepted! Second time applying. Rejected pre-interview last year. Overall - 80 something Last 60 - Low 90s Prereq - 78 yikes MCAT 10P-10V-13B-QW 33Q EC's - Every job under the sun from baker to construction to MCAT instructor to Vancouver Island Health Authority. Lots of volunteer stuff with my church, and with the QACCH. Some sports and outdoor stuff. Choir leadership. Fatherhood. MMI - Loved it. Got right into it. A couple of stations I was reaching, but most went very well. I honestly think my essay got me an interview and my interview got me in. But I guess I will never know. Note to all. I failed half of orgo. Overall that year I had an F, a C, a C-, a C+ and a B+. After some soul searching I finally devoted myself. Three great years later and I have been accepted. It is truly a dream come true. For those of you staring at your transcript thinking no way, I say it can be done! I have had so much help along the way and I thank everyone who knows me. You all helped me. I am truly just a product of the amazing opportunities that God and so many other people have given me.