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Canadian citizens:Timeline for residency


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This isnt really so much a timeline question, more about criteria I suppose. But, I was wondering what would US Med School Grads (Canadian Citizen, though) be evaluated based on for Canadian Residencies. In med school apps its clear the the GPA is the make or break factor with extracurriculars being the next most important followed possibly by the MCAT. So likewise how would things like class rankings (H/P/F), USMLE scores, Reference letters and extracurriculars as well as other things factor in something like this. Also being an american school grad what might be needed to make up for any deficiencies one may have in comparison to candian CARMS applicants.

 

Thanks in advance!

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I think this thread needs some bumping if info has changed and considering some of us might be entering US schools in a few months.

 

Also, due to the giving of TARP funds, Obama's new bill is now limiting financial services firms from giving and hiring H1-B's. This is his way to protect American workers and means that H1-B's will be significantly harder to come across now. Some non-citizen graduating college seniors with job offers had them rescinded due to this new law, so it's a pretty big deal. Will this affect residency positions?

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I think this thread needs some bumping if info has changed and considering some of us might be entering US schools in a few months.

 

Also, due to the giving of TARP funds, Obama's new bill is now limiting financial services firms from giving and hiring H1-B's. This is his way to protect American workers and means that H1-B's will be significantly harder to come across now. Some non-citizen graduating college seniors with job offers had them rescinded due to this new law, so it's a pretty big deal. Will this affect residency positions?

 

I remember reading that those H1Bs were not in the same pool as the ones medical students get. Don't quote me on it.

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Academic hospitals are non-profits, and aren't included in the maximum number of H-1Bs available each year. I don't think any policies to reduce the cap will affect them.

 

On the other hand, since new schools are opening up there will be more and more US citizen US grads vying for the same residency spots, so some programs may not be willing to make the effort for us anymore.

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Okay this will be super long since I started freaking out and researching this last week as well. The gist I got from SDN is that you don't want to rely on a J-1. I'm personally from Ontario. This year you can get a J-1 in pretty much any specialty. But how can you know that 4 years from now they won't only be willing to provide statements of need for family practice? Also, after living in the US for 4 years, you may have a hard time proving you're still a resident of Ontario.

 

Just like someone said here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=450230

 

"Don't settle for the J-1." Once you start medical school you're just going to have to work that much harder than all of your American classmates so that residency programs will want to sponsor your H-1B. You'll need higher board scores, better grades, better LORs, etc. But it's apparently doable. If not, you can always enter the first round of the Canadian match. It's not like going to the Carribean...as a graduate of an LCME school, someone, somewhere will take you.

 

In terms of returning to Canada after residency, it depends on the province. Ontario I know is really desperate for physicians, so just last December they enacted a new policy to make it extremely easy to get licensed after going to an American medical school + American residency: http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352

 

You don't even have to make up the difference in training years. Since it doesn't look like Ontario is going to be increasing medical school slots any time soon, I imagine policies like this will still exist when we graduate. If not, you'd just have to do an extra chief residency year and go through the normal process.

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so this is directly copied from the link alastriss posted:

 

 

VISAS FOR RESIDENCY

 

As an international student (ie. Non-US citizen/greencard holder), applying for a residency training position in the United States involves deciding which visa type one will take. Your decision would reflect where you intend to practice medicine upon completion of your post-graduate training.

 

There are two types of visa available to obtain permission to be employed in the US for post-graduate training: the J-1 and the H-1B.

 

The J-1 visa can be issued to (non-US) International Medical Graduates (IMGS) who have:

 

1) Obtained ECFMG certification (received diploma, passed Step 1 and Step 2 Clinical Knowledge (CK) of the United States Medical Licensing Examination)

 

2) Provide a Statement of Need from the Ministry of Health of the country of most recent legal permanent residence, regardless of country of citizenship, stating that the country is in need of physicians in the particular field that the applicant wants to pursue. This is called the STATEMENT OF NEED. The procedures for obtaining the Statement of Need vary depending upon the home country. (Canadians must pass the MCC Evaluating Exam to be eligible to obtain the Statement of Need from Health Canada).

 

3) A signed copy of the contract with the hospital.

 

The drawback with the J-1 visa is that the applicant has to return to his/her home country and work there for two years after completing the residency program. Although there have been “J-1 Waiver” jobs, which can allow you to work in the US without doing the compulsory two years in the home country, these jobs are in underserved areas and have been few and far between. After 9/11/2001 this program was cancelled altogether and is presently under review. Graduates should not pursue a J1 visa with the assumption that they can obtain a waiver.

 

The H-1B visa can be issued to (non-US) IMGS who have:

 

1) Obtained ECFMG certification

 

2) Passed Part III USMLE

 

3) A US employer (hospital) applies on behalf of the applicant. . Individuals can NOT sponsor or apply for their own H1B visa - ONLY your new employer (sponsor) can.

 

The H1B Visa Program is the official and primary USA work visa / work permit. The US Government offers the H1B visa to enable highly skilled International Workers and International Students, from all over the World, or already in the USA, the opportunity to legally live and work in America. One of the main advantages of the H1B visa (US work permit) is that it is a 'dual intent' visa which means that you can apply for a Green Card (Legal Permanent Residency).

 

A major difference when applying for the H-1B visa vs. the J-1 Visa is that the H-1B visa applicant must have taken and passed USMLE Step III. Since this examination cannot be taken (or even registered for) until a graduate has obtained ECFMG certification, May/June graduates generally would have to take a year off before being eligible to pursue a residency with this visa option. December graduates may have enough time to take USMLE Step III prior to the July 1 residency start date.* There is a “fast track” processing for the H1B which can enable one to get the visa within two weeks (an additional $1000 fee plus lawyer costs) but that still requires all paperwork and requirements for the visa to be complete when the application is made.

 

*Most states require that an individual have completed a portion of their postgraduate training prior to sitting for Step 3. However, the following states do not require postgraduate training for IMGs to sit for Step 3: Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Louisiana, Maryland, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia.

 

Please refer to the attached ECFMG and USMLE fact sheets for further information. Keep in mind that regulations pertaining to visas and medical licensure are subject to change and it is in your best interest to go directly to the relevant regulatory body when seeking the most current information.

August 2007

 

I also have a far more detailed account of how one graduate actually went through and did their visa paperwork (J-1), PM me with your e-mail (whoever wants this) and I will send a copy of the word doc to you.

 

You can also call the school for the most updated info from their end, remember that the people you talk to with the Canadian Medical Board don't deal with SGU students every day. There is a lady at SGU that deals just with Canadian students, chat with her for a lot of the questions you want answered.

 

And remember, Canadian students do this every year, and so far, I haven't heard of one person who has had a major issue or problem with figuring out their visa situations. Yes, it requires a little extra footwork, but it can be done.

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Okay this will be super long since I started freaking out and researching this last week as well. The gist I got from SDN is that you don't want to rely on a J-1. I'm personally from Ontario. This year you can get a J-1 in pretty much any specialty. But how can you know that 4 years from now they won't only be willing to provide statements of need for family practice? Also, after living in the US for 4 years, you may have a hard time proving you're still a resident of Ontario.

 

Just like someone said here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=450230

 

"Don't settle for the J-1." Once you start medical school you're just going to have to work that much harder than all of your American classmates so that residency programs will want to sponsor your H-1B. You'll need higher board scores, better grades, better LORs, etc. But it's apparently doable. If not, you can always enter the first round of the Canadian match. It's not like going to the Carribean...as a graduate of an LCME school, someone, somewhere will take you.

 

In terms of returning to Canada after residency, it depends on the province. Ontario I know is really desperate for physicians, so just last December they enacted a new policy to make it extremely easy to get licensed after going to an American medical school + American residency: http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352

 

You don't even have to make up the difference in training years. Since it doesn't look like Ontario is going to be increasing medical school slots any time soon, I imagine policies like this will still exist when we graduate. If not, you'd just have to do an extra chief residency year and go through the normal process.

 

Nice, but it seems like you have to do a year of supervised training as an "assessment"? What is this...like another residency or are you an attending at that point?

 

And Alastriss, yeah I have.

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"The drawback with the J-1 visa is that the applicant has to return to his/her home country and work there for two years after completing the residency program. Although there have been “J-1 Waiver” jobs, which can allow you to work in the US without doing the compulsory two years in the home country, these jobs are in underserved areas and have been few and far between. After 9/11/2001 this program was cancelled altogether and is presently under review. Graduates should not pursue a J1 visa with the assumption that they can obtain a waiver."

 

So what happened here? This thread isn't that old and people were talking about the waiver. Does this mean the program was brought back?

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  • 1 year later...
General q - does anyone know how applying to residency works? If you go to a US med school, can you apply in both Canada and the US?

 

Yes, but you can only match to one. Both NRMP and CaRMS run within a few weeks of each other. I forget which one usually runs first (check the websites) but if you match in one system, you are automatically withdrawn from the other match (they communicate with each other).

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Is this timeline right for a CMG applying to US residencies?

 

Med2: Write USMLEs

Med4: Write LMCC, (Step 2?), apply for residencies

 

If you match in the States, are you taken off CARMS? Is this still the case?

 

Also, I heard internal med, peds is relatively non-competitive in the US. What about for top residencies such as Mayo and Hopkins? I'm assuming you need a killer Step 1 and recommendation letters.

 

Thanks!

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i believe the us match is before the canadian, so if u match to us, u lose ur carms spot. so it's one or the other, i think u can pull out of the us match before matching though and take carms, dont take my word for it though.

 

honestly, i want an absolute top res if i do psych, er im more flexible...

 

my only answer is, if you want a top res, the destroy the usmle, sounds simple, and i know the process isn't, but the mindset it.

 

Is this timeline right for a CMG applying to US residencies?

 

Med2: Write USMLEs

Med4: Write LMCC, (Step 2?), apply for residencies

 

If you match in the States, are you taken off CARMS? Is this still the case?

 

Also, I heard internal med, peds is relatively non-competitive in the US. What about for top residencies such as Mayo and Hopkins? I'm assuming you need a killer Step 1 and recommendation letters.

 

Thanks!

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Traditionally, CaRMS match always happens 1 week before the NRMP match. I believe 6-7 years ago there was an instance where CaRMS happened after the US match but that is not the norm.

 

For top US residency programs, you need a killer score, 250+ on Step 1 and Step 2 at least. Being a non US citizen and thus requiring a visa to do residency training in the USA will also decrease your chances of getting interviews.

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i'm a litlle nuts, lol, regarding the usmle. but i live with an international img so i know about visa, bs. i don't wanna head back to med right away so I have some time to figure out all the visa stuff, I'm sure a lot of you guys know a lot more than I do about visa issues and rotating admissions, canadian friendly schools, etc. :)

 

Traditionally, CaRMS match always happens 1 week before the NRMP match. I believe 6-7 years ago there was an instance where CaRMS happened after the US match but that is not the norm.

 

For top US residency programs, you need a killer score, 250+ on Step 1 and Step 2 at least. Being a non US citizen and thus requiring a visa to do residency training in the USA will also decrease your chances of getting interviews.

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