zc1 Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Warning: Long Post...but if you've read any of my posts then you've probably already assumed this to be the case... One of the questions that seems to arise often is "With respect to the CaRMS process, how can I make myself a good/attractive candidate to (insert specialty of choice here)?" In the primary care residencies section I answered this question specifically for Emergency Medicine, but since the information is so generalizable I thought that it might be worth posting here, as well. The following is adapted from my other post: Some good ways to show commitment to a particular field: Memberships in Specialty-Related Associations Some Associations have free memberships for medical students -- join all of these! Others have reduced membership fees for medical students -- join as many useful ones as you can. This is a good way to get access to journals specific to your specialty area of interest (allowing you to keep up with current controversies, developments, etc). Memberships often also provide you with discounted rates at conferences. There is a specific section in the CaRMS application for memberships in and affiliations with professional associations. Administrative/Executive Positions National student groups (eg. CFMS) and local student groups (eg. your class council, your school's medical student society) are a good way to demonstrate interest in administrative/governance pursuits and advocacy. If your school doesn't have a club or interest group for the specialty in which you're interested, consider starting one. Advocacy Join advocacy groups and, if you're actually interested and will actually be able to commit to doing the work (and doing it well), then get involved in committees and help out. For Emergency Medicine, for example, there is the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians' (CAEP) Residents' Section (and medical student section). Research & Research Degrees More and more specialties are putting increasing emphasis on research, and having a research degree (MSc or PhD) can be a huge asset to your application. If you have a research degree and it's not relevant to the particular field to which you're applying, keep in mind that the methods learned, analytical/thought/critical appraisal skills obtained are transferable. If you took part in summer research projects, make sure you know the details very well. You will likely be asked about them. Journal Club If medical students are permitted at the monthly journal clubs then attend them! It's a good way to get to know about the hot topics as far as the academic side of your specialty is concerned. It's also a good forum for meeting residents and staff in what is usually a fairly relaxed setting. Letters From Academic Staff These can be especially helpful if the staff person has known you for more than just "an elective" or "a chart review project." If the staff person has known you for several years and can vouch for your interest, enthusiasm, work ethic, then their letter will be heavily-weighted. Volunteerism This area is often neglected by medical students. Plenty is done to get into medical school, but then it tends to falls off the to-do list. Teaching It's kind of tough to get teaching experience, but if you have the opportunity to get involved in tutoring, for example, consider it. Teaching is part of every physician's job at some point or another. The "students" can be patients, colleagues (Grand Rounds), residents, medical students and the general public (public seminars). We've all been taught by preceptors/professors/attendings who have employed a variety of different methods. We've all had bad teachers, good teachers and incredible teachers. It's to your advantage to gain teaching experience and to start to develop your own teaching style before you get to residency and are thrown into presenting at academic half-days and rounds. Electives Going away (out of town) for electives can help in many ways -- (1) You get a sense of how medicine is practiced in different settings and an idea of what you feel works and doesn't work; (2) You get an opportunity to meet physicians, in your specialty of interest, from across the country and start to establish links; (3) if your out of town electives go well then the letters that come out of them are evidence that you are able to fit into more than just your local program (where everybody already knows you). It also shows true interest in/commitment to the specialty for you to spend money to take part in an out-of-town elective. People generally don't leave home to do electives in areas in which they're not really interested. All of my "backup" electives were in town. Case in point. Conferences Good for your own learning (current research, upcoming interventions, current controversies/issues). Not free. Core Rotation Show interest during your core rotation and let your preceptor(s) know that you are interested in that particular field. Be honest with them with respect to your background, abilities and goals for the rotation. Let them know what you have and haven't seen so that they can let you try out what you have seen and understood and so that they will also remember to call you to see what you haven't had a chance to see. They also might include you in activities that aren't typically part of the rotation experience for student interns/clinical clerks. Through those activities you'll also likely get to meet some of the staff and residents. The more areas in which they can evaluate you or that they can include in their assessment of your abilities, the better will be any letters of reference that you receive from them. Take interest and do well on all of your core rotations. It'll put you in good standing should you end up continuing on with residency or even practice at the same location, and will make life much easier for you. It also looks good if you're reviewing a case with an attending from your specialty of interest and have another attending from a different service interrupt and actually acknowledge you by name, just to say hello, make a joke or update you on a case that you saw together previously. Obviously you don't need to address all of the above to get a position in your desired residency program, but if you want to be sure that your application stands out for all the right reasons then these things are definitely worth looking into. I'm the type to do everything that I can and leave as little as possible to chance. I didn't want Match Day to come and go, leaving me thinking "Maybe if I had just done..." Think About The Royal College Competencies This is really one of the easiest ways to organize yourself and your application (i.e. the Royal College competencies that are the core for training specialists). The College feels that by the end of your training you will be an effective physician if you fill all of these roles: -Medical Expert -Professional -Communicator -Collaborator -Manager -Health Advocate -Scholar If you demonstrate real progress in/committment to/fulfillment of all of these roles then consider yourself a strong applicant. Gone are the days of the physician just being a Medical Expert. It's not enough for the general public anymore and it's not enough from the College's point of view, either. I don't have a copy of the CFPC core competencies/objectives of training, but that's probably worth looking into if you're interested in a career in Family Medicine. Be honest in your personal letter. Be honest regarding your accomplishments, abilities and shortcomings. Show that you have a well-researched and mature understanding of what it means to have a career in (insert your preferred specialty here). Start your application early!!! Don't wait until last minute or even for the CaRMS webstation to open up. You can start writing your personal letter(s) now. One of my preceptors (who actually wrote a letter of reference for me) gave me that advice, adding that "some people don't realize how important the personal letter is, and it definitely shows." Any other contributions or tips from others who matched this year or in previous years? Struggling, adrenergic24 and Britesharpie93 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bunny Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Wow! awesome post. That was really good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinknoodle Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Great post! I stickied the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirsteen Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Hi there, Again, great post. Another tip: many programs will not offer you an interview unless they know you--especially true among the more competitive programs who are trying to find ways to filter their application piles. If you're keen on certain programs but don't have enough elective time to spend there, (and if you can find the resources) then contact the Program Director and ask if they'd be amenable to you coming out to visit them for a weekend, or over a couple of days. Given my complete lack of electives in Radiology, I remembered from the business realm how effective it could be to fly out and meet your clients or other colleagues face to face. I decided to give this a go last summer and contacted all the Radiology programs across the country, asking if I could meet some of their faculty and/or residents and see their facilities. Some of them shut the door to this request pretty quickly; however, many others were quite receptive to the idea. I took the opportunity to arrange very short trips out to each of the programs who welcomed me. Most folks who knew what I was doing noted that I was a bit saft in the heid (as my countryfolk would say). However, after each trip I was amazed at the value of these efforts. Not only did I meet some great folks, but I got a much better feel for each program. To boot, I subsequently received interview invitations from each program that I visited, plus a few extra that would not permit a visit. Had I not taken this extra step, I may have not matched to Radiology this year. Cheers, Kirsteen aspiringdoctor109 and sweatergirl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Great post...but I want to add an addendum for everyone who reads this and starts to freak out because they haven't completed activities in all of the above areas. Those are all great things to do, if you're interested and have the time. I had plenty of time to do all of the above, but couldn't be bothered. My hopes with CaRMS rested with good reference letters from staff I worked with on core rotations and electives and nothing else. No research, no organization memberships, no volunteering, no nothing. I did all of my electives in one specialty and only applied to every program in that specialty. I received plenty of interviews and got my first choice in the match...so don't worry. Programs seem to most interested in your personality and your ability to get along well with the people you'll be working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zc1 Posted May 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Good points, Bay. Just to be clear, though, in my post I did say: Obviously you don't need to address all of the above to get a position in your desired residency program, but if you want to be sure that your application stands out for all the right reasons then these things are definitely worth looking into. I'm the type to do everything that I can and leave as little as possible to chance. I didn't want Match Day to come and go, leaving me thinking "Maybe if I had just done..." I think your approach is the other extreme, though, and is safest for people who "know the right people." I'm willing to bet that most applicants fall somewhere in the middle. IMO, it's a gamble not to do something else to make yourself even more attractive on paper...but it definitely makes for a great "war story" if it works out for you in the end. I preferred to go above and beyond and try to make it unreasonable for any program to decide not to interview me...despite the fact that I had met and/or had worked with several of "the right people"...Yes, I'm a chicken, lol. The suggestions, above, will help an applicant to get an interview. Come interview time, though, as Bay mentioned, your personality, maturity and ability to think in that situation are what really matter. The interview process is aimed at figuring out which applicants aren't just the right fit on paper, but also in person. I've heard of some programs where all that really matters (once you have been granted an interview) is how much the program director likes you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bay Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 Good to here. I think we're actually on the same page. I always believe in "to each his own". I just wanted to add the addendum, because as you correctly assumed, I missed your own disclaimer and I know that people on this board start freaking out whenever advice is put up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard Posted June 14, 2007 Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 Thanks for the great informative posts everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirsteen Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Great post...but I want to add an addendum for everyone who reads this and starts to freak out because they haven't completed activities in all of the above areas. Those are all great things to do, if you're interested and have the time. I had plenty of time to do all of the above, but couldn't be bothered. My hopes with CaRMS rested with good reference letters from staff I worked with on core rotations and electives and nothing else. No research, no organization memberships, no volunteering, no nothing. I did all of my electives in one specialty and only applied to every program in that specialty. I received plenty of interviews and got my first choice in the match...so don't worry. Programs seem to most interested in your personality and your ability to get along well with the people you'll be working with. Hi there, With respect to the above approach, although it worked out well for you, it may not work out for everyone, and in fact, it doesn't. I've known a few folks who took the above approach to CaRMS and didn't end up matching in the first round (and in one case, second round) at all, despite receiving a few interviews. (...and some of these folks are good, decent, well-mannered people.) Ultimately, CaRMS involves many factors, including a wee bit of luck and often a good deal of stress. The ideal approach is one that works for you, i.e., provides the amount of control over the process that satisfies you, lessens your stress level and hopefully achieves the goal you seek. Cheers, Kirsteen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenfive Posted October 12, 2007 Report Share Posted October 12, 2007 I have to agree with Bay on this. Of course- it's good to have stuff on your resume (particularly research). A lot of that is 'no-brainer' stuff, and just takes a bit of planning over your 3-4 years in med school. But - The impression you make on electives is definitely the most important factor. If you do this well, it will be the most useful thing that you do for yourself. How do you do this? -- The easy part is being well-read on your specialty, getting some preclerkship exposure, and being 'Keen' (i.e. interested and motivated). The more 'user-specific' part is simply being humble, likeable and socially adept. Really - that's all it is. I can see now from the other side - as long as the student has the basic knowledge, they just need to be easy to get along with and affable. If the program knows you and likes you, then the interview is basically just a small addendum to your previous exposure. To be honest, my interviews were all very anticlimactic; all the work had been done already. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgarymed Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Hi, Does anyone know how hard it would be to match to residency programs at McGill as english speaking, non french speaking student? Or does anyone have any experience with this or examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 McGill is an English-speaking university....so you shouldn`t have any problems matching as an anglophone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgarymed Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Yes I know that McGill is an english school, but still is the majority of your patient population not french? And are you saying that your opinion is that this would not affect their decision to take me as a resident or not, at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 One thing that really isn't mentioned enough here is "connections" If you have a family member who is a big wheel influential doctor, or program donor, or whatever, then your chances of matching are substantially higher. All I can say is that I've seen people match into hardcore competitive programs ( the ROAD etc) with course failures, very little research, average clerkship performance etc. Heck, I've seen matching be arranged to accommodate the son/daughter of the program director/department head of a competitive field; more than once i might add. Sometimes, people go unmatched due to the fact that Dr.Bigwig's academically average son or daughter wants a spot too. Sometimes its just bad luck. So to all of you who went unmatched: sometimes its not your fault. Sometimes you just get screwed. Someone's gotta lose. Sometimes its you. Don't give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Did you go unmatched? noncestvrai P.S. I hate to say it, but connections are obviously huge, and sometimes, it's not actually the best man who wins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Did you go unmatched? noncestvrai P.S. I hate to say it, but connections are obviously huge, and sometimes, it's not actually the best man who wins... I knew someone would ask this. The answer is no, I matched fine. But I know of some people that didn't. They did everything textbook, and were great both on paper and in person, but it just didn't work out for them. Sometimes its more about who your daddy is or who you're sleeping with, and less about how good of a physician you could potentially be. Granted, no program wants to admit they would actually select a candidate in this way, nor does a student want to admit that perhaps they got where they are because of pedigree or money or what have you, even when evidence to the contrary is glaringly obvious... ...of course, physicians seldom look at themselves with critical eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Where did you match? You can PM me. noncestvrai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Where did you match? You can PM me. noncestvrai Im sorry but I do not give personal info over the internet. I hope there are no hard feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Of course not! Good luck with your future plans =) noncestvrai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physiology Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Hi,Does anyone know how hard it would be to match to residency programs at McGill as english speaking, non french speaking student? Or does anyone have any experience with this or examples? I applied to psychiatry at McGill and my French is very minimal. So of all specialties, if it doesn't matter in psychiatry, then I couldn't see it mattering in others....however, the more French you speak, the more you'll get out of your electives & residency experience at McGill. I'd say that upwards of 50% of patients are Francophone. However, they will accommodate you in English most times, because there is a general understanding that the McGill-affiliated hospitals are English speaking. LittleDaisy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noncestvrai Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 I applied to psychiatry at McGill and my French is very minimal. So of all specialties, if it doesn't matter in psychiatry, then I couldn't see it mattering in others....however, the more French you speak, the more you'll get out of your electives & residency experience at McGill. I'd say that upwards of 50% of patients are Francophone. However, they will accommodate you in English most times, because there is a general understanding that the McGill-affiliated hospitals are English speaking. There are residents from the Gulf countries who don't know how to say "bonjour"...so I think you're ahead of them Calgarymed... There is always a nurse or anybody around to help you with a H&P... noncestvrai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physiology Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 "I am a student of medicine. I am close to total completion of my clerkship. I have no electives arranged. I do not know what I want to do for a career choice. I know I do not want to do family medicine. I think I have lost my motivation to continue in medicine since I do not have a goal. I do not know who to ask for advice." So I guess you found out what you wanted to do eh? Physio I knew someone would ask this. The answer is no, I matched fine. But I know of some people that didn't. They did everything textbook, and were great both on paper and in person, but it just didn't work out for them. Sometimes its more about who your daddy is or who you're sleeping with, and less about how good of a physician you could potentially be. Granted, no program wants to admit they would actually select a candidate in this way, nor does a student want to admit that perhaps they got where they are because of pedigree or money or what have you, even when evidence to the contrary is glaringly obvious... ...of course, physicians seldom look at themselves with critical eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathcart Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 If I do my undergrad and med school in the same university, wil there be a bias against me when i apply for a residency program in that same university? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blinknoodle Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 If I do my undergrad and med school in the same university, wil there be a bias against me when i apply for a residency program in that same university? Likely not. But if you do only electives in a specific geographical reason, it will be harder to convince other schools you are willing to relocate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted April 28, 2008 Report Share Posted April 28, 2008 I'm just curious about something. Lots of schools now don't even have marks (pass/fail) and I heard clerkship is also pass/fail. So does that mean your "academic performance" is never going to be graded on a number scale? It's always on a 2 way spectrum (pass/fail, satisfactory/unsatisfactory)? Does that mean your class ranking is a determinant of where you place? Or is everything non-academic and based on references/electives and the whole list in the beginning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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