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Why You Should Choose Western!


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A review of the OP's points compared to U of T, for those with a decision to make:

 

Greetings,

1. Our clerkship is the best in the country, bar none. We do all our clinical rotations in year 3, so when we start our electives, we don't look like fools in front of that Toronto PD you are trying to impress.

I heard from MULTIPLE residents on my electives (for a surgical specialty) that we are the best trained elective students. By the time you do your electives, you have intubated, possibly scoped, sutured multiple times, possibly even performed parts of surgeries (multiple classmates had performed tonsillectomies in year 3, another had buzzed off the gallbladder in a lap chole). We do first call on medicine... it's either you OR a junior resident covering your team. You are prepared well here.

This is also how clerkship works at U of T as well. No longer really an advantage for Western. At U of T, you have the option of doing all/most of your core rotations at community hospitals if you would like a more "hands on" experience. Unlike Western, you also have options to do your core rotations at central hospitals such as Sunnybrook, Toronto General, St. Michaels, Sick Kids. Even with that "Toronto PD". Best of both worlds.

 

Which leads me to...

 

2. You can't always get what you want... unless you go to Western. Match Day was March 8th this year. Not trying to sound pompous, but we kicked ass. We matched about 98%* (for your comparison, U of T was about 95%). And yes, it would be easy to match 100% if everybody went for family, but we had:

-12 general surgery matches (in a year where there are no Canadian spots left in the 2nd round)

-2 ophtho

-3 ENT

-3 urology

-6 ortho

-2 derm

-2 plastics

-multiple matches to IM (including a large group to Mac, supposedly the best IM program)

-multiple matches to paeds (including a bunch to Ottawa, the premier paeds program)

Perhaps in a year before, but according to the 2011 CaRMS stats, Toronto matched higher than Western. Regardless, the differences are always marginal at best, highly doubt any statistical significance. For the most part, Canadian Medical schools match in the high 90's.

 

 

All of which results in...

3. Schulich Grads ranked #1 in Canada on LMCC (licensing exam all 4th year students write)

 

High LMCC score = Good Doctor. Not so sure about that.

 

4. London has some of the best surgical programs in the country, so you will be exposed to them in your clerkship teaching and (may) have an opportunity to work with them. (I realize this is more desirable for those who want to do surgery, but my point is that there are very few surgeries that aren't performed here and you WILL interact with some of the best known surgeons in the country because the programs are generally smaller than in a bigger center.)

No point in debating which school has a "better" surgical program as there is no way of really evaluating that. Toronto offers excellent surgical programs, some would argue even better than what Western has to offer.

 

And that summarizes why Toronto is the Best Medical School in Canada...just kidding...that's not how we roll. All schools have their pros and cons. Be it Western or Toronto, YOU will determine what kind of doctor you will become. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Best of luck with your decisions for those with multiple offers.

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And that summarizes why Toronto is the Best Medical School in Canada...just kidding...that's not how we roll. All schools have their pros and cons. Be it Western or Toronto, YOU will determine what kind of doctor you will become. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Best of luck with your decisions for those with multiple offers.

 

Keep in mind that if this person's points are that UofT is the same as Western in producing the best doctors, they do so with practically double the course load/lecture hours.

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Keep in mind that if this person's points are that UofT is the same as Western in producing the best doctors, they do so with practically double the course load/lecture hours.

 

This is NOT what I was saying. I was saying that medical school is what you make of it, all medical schools produce good and bad doctors. The OP was implying that Western is the best, which I refuted.

 

Also, judging from the sample schedule posted on http://www.uwomeds.com/prospective/life.php you guys have about 10hr of lecture per week which is equal or more than UofT.

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This is NOT what I was saying. I was saying that medical school is what you make of it, all medical schools produce good and bad doctors. The OP was implying that Western is the best, which I refuted.

 

Also, judging from the sample schedule posted on http://www.uwomeds.com/prospective/life.php you guys have about 10hr of lecture per week which is equal or more than UofT.

 

Let's not have this degenerate into a pissing contest.

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Was there something you found offensive?
Yes. The "My med school is better than your med school" back and forth volleying is unnecessary and adds nothing to this conversation.

Yeah, I agree with maodiddymao; the reflex defensiveness and troll-y nitpicking is kinda unbecoming--as if you're gunning to start a pointless internet flame war.

MEH. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Did you guys even read my posts? The OP provided "reasons" why Western is the best, many of which were incorrect. Another poster remarked about lecture hours. I just pointed out that their claims were false, then went on to state that no medical school is the "best". I don't see how pointing out falsehoods can be considered trolling. Just trying prevent misinformation from being spread. Sorry if the truth isn't something you guys are happy with.

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I agree with Carefree. There is no "best" medical school, just ones that are more compatible with particular students. In the end, what you get out of it has more to do with what you put into it. I'm sure all school's are wonderful institutions. No need to argue over which one is superior.

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Did you guys even read my posts? The OP provided "reasons" why Western is the best, many of which were incorrect. Another poster remarked about lecture hours. I just pointed out that their claims were false, then went on to state that no medical school is the "best". I don't see how pointing out falsehoods can be considered trolling. Just trying prevent misinformation from being spread. Sorry if the truth isn't something you guys are happy with.

 

The parts like "Sorry if the truth isn't something you guys are happy with" were the types of things I was referring to, not the factual statements that you made which I have no problem with. Just keep it civil, that's all I'm saying.

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UofT's clerkship curriculum was modelled after UWOs. However it isn't just the order of the rotations that gives our clerkship model the strength it holds.

 

Our clerks are consistently getting a lot of responsibility - more so than you would at a huge academic center. As bluntly as I can say it - it's true. There is no way a 3rd year medical student will get to do as much or see as much if they were in a huge academic institution with a ton of fellows, residents, etc. As a 3rd year student you are pretty much first call during internal/CTU (which means you get to kind of play pgy-1), and more often than not you will be first assist on surgeries. You wouldn't dream of having such responsibility if you were in a major city institution.

 

Of course on the same token, huge academic institutions, means getting exposure to medical specialties not available to those of us in smaller communities and seeing extremely rare medical cases. However, given that even as a senior medical student you are in the early stages of your training, that advantage may or may not be moot. It's a personal preference.

 

Also re: your point about carms match. It isn't overall match rate that GOB is concerned about. That's not a good way to look at it at all. It's match rates to specific specialties. As you can see, we matched candidates last year (and this year) into very competitive specialties at rates that are above the national mean. Definitely worth something.

 

And just to remind everyone, pick the institution whose advantages you're interested in. That way, EVERYBODY WINS!!!

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UofT's clerkship curriculum was modelled after UWOs. However it isn't just the order of the rotations that gives our clerkship model the strength it holds.

 

Our clerks are consistently getting a lot of responsibility - more so than you would at a huge academic center. As bluntly as I can say it - it's true. There is no way a 3rd year medical student will get to do as much or see as much if they were in a huge academic institution with a ton of fellows, residents, etc. As a 3rd year student you are pretty much first call during internal/CTU (which means you get to kind of play pgy-1), and more often than not you will be first assist on surgeries. You wouldn't dream of having such responsibility if you were in a major city institution.

I'd recommend that you re-read my post that you quoted. You seemed to have missed the part that said, "At U of T, you have the option of doing all/most of your core rotations at community hospitals if you would like a more 'hands on' experience." You can check out the hospitals that U of T is affiliated with here: http://www.pgme.utoronto.ca/hospitals.htm . Also it's worth considering that large city hospitals may have more learners, but they likely admit far more patients too. Perhaps the patient per student ratio is similar? I don't have numbers.

 

Also re: your point about carms match. It isn't overall match rate that GOB is concerned about. That's not a good way to look at it at all. It's match rates to specific specialties. As you can see, we matched candidates last year (and this year) into very competitive specialties at rates that are above the national mean. Definitely worth something.

So again, a quick re-read would be useful. You may have missed the point, "Regardless, the differences are always marginal at best, highly doubt any statistical significance."

You say these numbers are "definitely worth something." Consider this scenario. 20 students from school A apply to Anesthesia, 5 match. 3 students from school B apply to Anesthesia, 3 match. Does this make school A better than school B, because more students matched? Perhaps less students from school B applied for "competitive specialties"? Are there any stats which show this? Regardless, I reiterate, these CaRMS stats likely have NO statistical significance.

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Just because you're at an academic institution, doesn't mean you can't get a lot of responsibility. Many rotations at UWO are at academic institutions with fellows, etc. but it dosen't mean those fellows are EVERYWHERE (not THAT many of them around) so sometimes clerks are given a LOT of responsibility at these "large, academic institutions", more so than some community centres where people can baby you and make you follow them around like a puppy dog at a GP office *rolls eyes*. It's more preceptor/program dependent than anything.

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