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Medical School Second Undergrad Degree Policies (Updated Aug 8, 2012)


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I am nearing completion of a Thesis-based MSc. I've applied to many schools this year, but am living life assuming that I get rejected (I have a 3.5 OMSAS GPA and am only IP for UBC.

 

After much deliberation, I have determined that the best course of action post-masters would be to do an extra year of unclassified studies (mainly upper-level courses) amounting to 8 credits. (and re-write the mcat with hopes of improving my 32).

 

My question is whether Queens will use this extra year as part of the 2-year GPA cutoff calculation.

 

I ask because:

 

1) I'll have a Master's so they will look at my file entirely in a different way (will the 2-year cut-off even come into play, as I will definitely not meet the overall GPA cutoff)

 

2) A full year of unclassified studies will not be towards another, or any degree - any thoughts about whether this year will still be considered.

 

3) I'll have a Master's degree interjecting my last year of undergrad and this proposed unclassified year. Thoughts? I can't find much on the Queen's site in regards to this. I guess the next option would be to call em directly.

 

Thanks!

 

http://meds.queensu.ca/education/undergraduate/prospective_students/method_of_selection

GPA Cutoff

For applicants who do not meet this cutoff, we will consider the most recent two full time years of completed undergraduate study to determine if this GPA is at or above this determined cutoff.

 

http://meds.queensu.ca/education/undergraduate/prospective_students/frequently_asked_questions

Do I have to have 5 credits in a year to be considered full time?

Any year in which you have completed a minimum of 3 courses in each academic semester will be considered full time. You do not have to carry a full course load to be considered full time.

 

Instead of minimum 4 courses, it states a minimum of 3 courses in each academic semester. I believe it is a 60% course load, so it is 3 courses x 2 semesters x most recent 2 years = most recent 12 courses (6 full credits) to be considered.

Please advise if otherwise.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just realized that my explanation of UWO's second degree policy made it to the first post in this thread! Thanks, tooty! I still haven't clarified when the second degree needs to be finished, but I've heard that they provide a deadline. I'll visit Schulich's offices in the coming weeks to get that clarified and see if they've made any progress on the new policy.

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  • 3 weeks later...

University of Calgary's policy has changed as of this application cycle:

 

Their format is now similar to U of A's calculation, where you can drop one year if you have completed at least four. This holds true for second/third/more undergrad degrees... so if you have 4 years, you can drop one; if you have 8 years, you can still only drop one, etc.

 

As for grad degrees, the entire cumulative GPA for that degree is treated as the average GPA for "one year" -- so if you have a 4-year undergrad and a masters, you drop the worst year (probably from your undergrad), and your GPA overall is your 3 best years from UG + your overall GPA from your masters. Note that you have to be finished your masters to have that "year" included in your GPA calculation, although you don't have to be finished your program to apply.

 

I would direct you to the 2011-2012 Applicant Manual (see page 6 for minimum requirements and page 11 for some examples), and the admissions blog.

 

To quote page 6 of the applicant manual:

"If the applicant is in the final year of their undergraduate degree or beyond, we will eliminate either the worst full-time year or the worst semester. Applicants with a completed graduate degree will have their overall GPA from their graduate program used as equivalent to one year of undergraduate GPA for the purposes of this calculation." (bolding mine)

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  • 4 weeks later...
For Ottawa U, and others, the 3 years best undergrad must be full time, correct? Does this mean 5 courses per semester, or 4 courses + summer courses? What constitutes full time at Ottawa U/ other schools? This is confusing to me.

 

Every school counts "full time" differently. I think Ottawa is 8 courses between sept-april, but I could be wrong. The best way to check is by going to the school's website yourself. :)

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A summary from the OMSAS Booklet says that your need to have 5 full credits per academic year. If you take 4 full credits in an academic year, you can make up 1 credit during the summer or you could make up that credit next year but that would mean you would have to take 6 full credits that year.

 

Credits obtained during the summer will *not* be used in calculating your WGPA. :)

 

I hope this helps!

 

For Ottawa U, and others, the 3 years best undergrad must be full time, correct? Does this mean 5 courses per semester, or 4 courses + summer courses? What constitutes full time at Ottawa U/ other schools? This is confusing to me.
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You might want to add more stipulations to UWO. Second degree must be "honours degree or equivalent" and the requirement that 3.0/5.0 credits be at the senior level or above (2000 - 4999) courses.

 

What excatly do they mean by honours or equivalent? Does this mean I need to find an honours project with a professor and defend a thesis or does it simply mean graduate with a GPA that is honours distinction?

 

Thanks in advance

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What excatly do they mean by honours or equivalent? Does this mean I need to find an honours project with a professor and defend a thesis or does it simply mean graduate with a GPA that is honours distinction?

 

Thanks in advance

 

It means you need a degree that is honors something. No mention of completing an honors thesis, that is separate and your choice of completing or not.

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It means you need a degree that is honors something. No mention of completing an honors thesis, that is separate and your choice of completing or not.

 

OK so the second degree I am interested in does not offer an honors degree, does that mean I am automatically eliminated from this school? What if I get a high GPA that is honours distinction?

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
Thanks for the correction robin. Can some of you francophones do up summaries for Laval UdeM and Sherbrooke? I'll put it up top.

 

UdeM: Every course counts (like Mac). I think you're most recent degree needs to be completed by the prescribed time unless you can justify it.

Laval: Every course counts except for courses taken as independent student, courses that are considered outside your major (hors-programme), and cegep-level courses taken at university. Each course is calculated once. Your Laval R Score is calculated based on the GPA appearing on your official transcript, they don't make their own GPA calculation. If you're not from their university, you need to complete 75 credits in one program by the application deadline. Doesn't care about how much time you take for finishing your degree.

Sherbrooke: Every course counts, but there may be some exceptions (idk). You can apply anytime you want. Academic score calculated using a Z Score and no bonus given for your major. Must be full course load except for extenuing circompstances.

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They drop 1 full course equivalent (FCE) per year of full time (5 FCEs per year) courses you have taken. So, assuming that you have taken 5 FCEs each year, you have 6 years of full time study therefore drop 6 full credits (or 12 courses). It doesn't have to be one FCE dropped each year, just your 6 lowest courses.

 

I don't think they count your Masters grades, look at the sticky on graduate degree policies.

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UdeM: Every course counts (like Mac). I think you're most recent degree needs to be completed by the prescribed time unless you can justify it.

Laval: Every course counts except for courses taken as independent student, courses that are considered outside your major (hors-programme), and cegep-level courses taken at university. Each course is calculated once. Your Laval R Score is calculated based on the GPA appearing on your official transcript, they don't make their own GPA calculation. If you're not from their university, you need to complete 75 credits in one program by the application deadline. Doesn't care about how much time you take for finishing your degree.

Sherbrooke: Every course counts, but there may be some exceptions (idk). You can apply anytime you want. Academic score calculated using a Z Score and no bonus given for your major. Must be full course load except for extenuing circompstances.

 

Thanks Robin. Since you're not sure about the details, can you please post the links to their respective admissions breakdowns as they relate to 2nd degrees?

 

Can someone please clarify U of T's policy.

 

If I have a 3.0 in first undergrad (4 yrs) and a 3.9 in a 2nd, 2 yr undergrad, plus a Masters, what do they look at? Im not sure I'm following the dropping of credits thing.

 

Thank you!

 

Depends on how many courses you have taken. List all your courses and their grades grouped by semester and we'll have a look.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thanks Robin. Since you're not sure about the details, can you please post the links to their respective admissions breakdowns as they relate to 2nd degrees?

 

 

 

Depends on how many courses you have taken. List all your courses and their grades grouped by semester and we'll have a look.

 

They don't have a separate policies for second degrees, they look at everything.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Has it been confirmed that for a second undergraduate degree the senior course requirement refers to 2nd year and above? I am looking at finishing the degree I started, but the most 3rd and 4th year courses I can manage is about 2.5/year for the next two years.

 

as far as I know the second degree's rules are exactly the same as the first ones :(

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I wrote the admissions office about this, so I hopefully will have an answer soon. My confusion stems from this thread:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55905&page=3

 

Some of the members seemed to be suggesting that for a second undergraduate degree senior = 2nd year and above and the rule about 3/5 needing to be 3rd year and above for the 3rd and 4th year was for first degrees only. Problem for me is the only way I could adhere to this rule would be by doing six credits in one year, which would absolutely kill me even if I wasn't working part time (and I would have to do unnecessary credits just to be able to take 3rd or 4th year courses).

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I wrote the admissions office about this, so I hopefully will have an answer soon. My confusion stems from this thread:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55905&page=3

 

Some of the members seemed to be suggesting that for a second undergraduate degree senior = 2nd year and above and the rule about 3/5 needing to be 3rd year and above for the 3rd and 4th year was for first degrees only. Problem for me is the only way I could adhere to this rule would be by doing six credits in one year, which would absolutely kill me even if I wasn't working part time (and I would have to do unnecessary credits just to be able to take 3rd or 4th year courses).

 

Let us know what they say - I don't think there is a change but if there is I would like to update the Schulich admissions site to include any new rules.

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I was under the impression that senior level for second degrees was 2000+ level courses. I quickly looked through Western's website but couldn't find anything that could elaborate on the "senior level or equivalent" requirement for second degrees. A few people in that other thread claimed to have contacted the admissions office and were told 2000+ level courses were acceptable for senior level of a second degree. All of this is unofficial though. It would be great if they could address this issue and clear up any confusion on their website.

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Has it been confirmed that for a second undergraduate degree the senior course requirement refers to 2nd year and above? I am looking at finishing the degree I started, but the most 3rd and 4th year courses I can manage is about 2.5/year for the next two years.

 

You are allowed to take more than 2 credits of first year courses given it is a pre-requisite for the degree. However, you have to obtain a letter from your school's registrar indicating you HAD to take these 1st year (or 2nd year) courses as part of your degree requirement. I have confirmed this with the admissions office.

 

I don't know if that answers your question or not but thought I share anyways.

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