CaRMS reference letters-general or specific?

[Guest dakar]

Say I'm applying to two different residency programs (i.e. different specialties - Family and FRCP Emerg, in my example). When I submit CaRMs reference letters, do I submit the same 3 GENERAL references for BOTH applications, or should I try and get specialty-specific references unique to each application?

 

Following that, what if you would want a reference from the same doc for two different programs? Twould be a bit presumptuous to ask for two letters, methinks.

 

Guidance is appreciated. General references, or hunt for specifics? And if so, what of the problem I mentioned? (dual references from the same doc)

 

Many thanks

[Guest gucio93]

Personally, I think specialty-specific references are more valuable. You are not restricted by CaRMS with regard to how many reference letters you receive. You are restricted by the program to which you apply, which may require x number of letters. If you are applying to three different programs, you can get specific references from different people and when you get to that point in the CaRMS application you can assign each reference to either one or more programs to which you want it to be sent.

 

I would not advise the technique of asking a supervisor for more than one letter ... really, what can't he say for one that he can say for the other.

[Guest dakar]

thanks for the reply

 

wouldn't it be difficult, though, to get three subject specific references for OB-GYN, then three specific ones for family, and three different ones for Peds? (just giving an example).

 

I'd be hard pressed to get three specific references that are really valid, from attendings that know me well, for any program, but maybe that's my problem.

[Guest gucio93]

Most people, by the time the application cycle rolls around, have a fairly good idea of which specialty they wish to go into and have done some electives in that field; hence, they would have specific references. I would think that for the back-up choices some general references would be sufficient i.e. from an internist who could say he/she was your attending on such and such a services, and can see your aptitude for such and such a specialty, etc.

[Guest Ian Wong]

Specialty-specific letters are always good. Strong letters in Internal Medicine and General Surgery are always good. Whatever your primary specialty of choice is, you should always have one (if not two) letter(s) from a physician in that field.

 

As you progress through your third year rotations, you should be picking up letters at every rotation if you might potentially apply to it. You should DEFINITELY be picking up a General Surgery letter and an Internal Medicine letter simply because they are very versatile letters, and everyone knows that they are tough rotations where your responsibility and work ethic levels really come out.

 

It's really tough to advise you on which letters to use (that's such an individualized scenario that it'd be impossible to give you general advice without knowing which specialties you are applying to, which rotations you did well on, whether your preceptors are willing to write you multiple letters, etc).

 

Just make sure that whichever letters you get come from people who know you well, and are willing to write you a strong recommendation.

 

Ian

[Guest Lactic Folly]

Are these letters confidential and unavailable to the applicant, just as when applying to medical school?

[Guest McMastergirl]

They are available to the applicant if the writer chooses; however, if you see the letter they must indicate that fact in the body of the letter. Generally it is better to not see the letter, or so I've heard. A letter you've seen apparently carries less weight.

[Guest Kirsteen]

Hi there,

 

For CaRMS reference letters, do Canadian medical students regularly use document inventorying services, e.g., Referencenow.com, to house their letters? Or, does CaRMS supply some sort of central service where you can house your letters, which allows you to choose which letters are sent to which schools?

 

Cheers,

Kirsteen

[Guest gucio93]

Everything is done through CaRMS. The instructions for what is to be included in the reference letter are available for the writers to see and then the letter is sent directly to CaRMS by the "referee". CaRMS houses all the documents. Through your on-line application you are able to indicate which letters you wish to assign to which schools. Same goes for your personal statement - basically a why this program, why this specialty essay. You can (should) write one for each program you are applying to and then you can assign them appropriately.

[Guest Ian Wong]

CaRMS asks that if the applicant has not seen the letter, that this should be stated by the referee within the body of the letter. These letters are supposed to weigh in more strongly. Having said that, if your referee offers you the chance to see your reference letters, it may well be worth it to do so. Then you can decide whether or not to use it later on. This used to be quite commonplace before the e-CaRMS system was established, when each referee needed to generate multiple copies of each letter.

 

A lukewarm or worse yet, mediocre letter can do some serious damage to your application chances; even people who like you and are trying to write you a strong letter of reference might not do that job as well as you would think.

 

Ian

[Guest JSS02]

Ian,

You said it would be a good idea to pick up letters during core clerkship rotations if possible. What if this rotation is completed months before you even start your CaRMS application? Would they write the letter early on and keep a copy around until CaRMS begins accepting letters?

[Guest Ian Wong]

Once you finish your rotation, you give your referee a CURRENT CV, and any additional information (ie. cover letter explaining your interest in a certain specialty), and ask them if they'd be willing to write you a letter at the present time.

 

Ask them to retain an electronic copy themselves, and give them a preaddressed mailer to send a hard copy of the reference letter to your Dean's Office. Your Dean's Office should be able to hold this letter for you. Should you wish to use this letter several months later on in CaRMS, you can re-approach your referee, give them an even more current CV along with the specialty/specialties that you are planning to apply to, and ask them if they can do a quick update on your letter.

 

In this fashion, you get the bulk of the letter written while you are still fresh in their minds (instead of re-approaching them several months later after they've worked with tons of other med students), but are still able to tweek it later on with more recent achievements, as well as customizing it a bit further towards whichever specialty you ended up deciding on. You also have a hard copy letter sitting at the Dean's Office as a backup in case you lose contact with this referee.

 

Ian

[Clover_236]

Reviving an old tread to get a new perspective on using general vs specific letters

For example, is applying to Family Med with 3 general letters (from 2 FM preceptors and 1 IM preceptor) any worse than applying to family with 3 specific letters from the exact same preceptors?

Also applying to IM with 3 general letters (2 IM preceptors and 1 FM preceptor) vs specific letters from the same people?

Getting general letters gives a lot more flexibility in how they can be used, as long as the letters come from the “right speciality/preceptor” any ideas on how much it matters if they are general or specific?

Thanks!

 

[FOOSH]

^ Also curious about this! Anyone? 

[LittleDaisy]

BUMP!

Anyone knows, if a senior staff physician's recommendation letter carries more weight than a young attending?

I guess that the primary factor is which staff writes the strongest letter...but I don't really know, since everything is confidential  I will figure it out based on my elective experience and intuition.

[thestar10]

BUMP!

Anyone knows, if a senior staff physician's recommendation letter carries more weight than a young attending?

I guess that the primary factor is which staff writes the strongest letter...but I don't really know, since everything is confidential  I will figure it out based on my elective experience and intuition.

I would say yes it would carry more weight (assuming both have indicated they would write strong letters and you have no concerns about that) with the exception of the schools that the junior staff trained at and works at. If they were a resident in that program the selection committee probably knows them quite well after going through the program.

 

This advice probably does not apply to family medicine but probably holds true for most royal college programs (in my opinion)

[LittleDaisy]

Thank you so much!!!

Both said that they would write strong letters, thanks for your advice

 

For OP, since you are applying to family and internal medicine. I don't think that it makes a huge difference with general or specific letters.

But specific letters make you look more motivated and determined for a particular discipline.

When you have a general LOR, the program knows that you are hesitating between a few disciplines.Just my 2 cents, I am just a clerk going through CaRMS as you are

I would say yes it would carry more weight (assuming both have indicated they would write strong letters and you have no concerns about that) with the exception of the schools that the junior staff trained at and works at. If they were a resident in that program the selection committee probably knows them quite well after going through the program.

 

This advice probably does not apply to family medicine but probably holds true for most royal college programs (in my opinion)

[medisforme]

I personally used all specialty specific letters (applied to both family and psych) and no generic letters.  Two preceptors (one family and one psych) offered to write letters for both family and psych so I readily took them up on that.  I made no effort to hide the fact that I was applying to both family and psych during my electives (though the elective specialty I was in was always my number one choice, haha).  I found telling preceptors up front what you wanted to do helped them write a more specific (and in my opinion stronger letter).  I feel this strategy worked as I received 6 interviews out of 7 programs I applied to between the two specialties and ended up getting my number one choice (location and specialty).  

[moonwalker2099]

I personally used all specialty specific letters (applied to both family and psych) and no generic letters.  Two preceptors (one family and one psych) offered to write letters for both family and psych so I readily took them up on that.  I made no effort to hide the fact that I was applying to both family and psych during my electives (though the elective specialty I was in was always my number one choice, haha).  I found telling preceptors up front what you wanted to do helped them write a more specific (and in my opinion stronger letter).  I feel this strategy worked as I received 6 interviews out of 7 programs I applied to between the two specialties and ended up getting my number one choice (location and specialty).  

 

I've actually been debating this as well since I didn't receive any interviews last cycle for FM/IM - although i had good board scores, grades, and clerkship evaluations.  Note: I am an IMG applicant.  But I was also wondering if perhaps having discipline-specific letters for each specialty applied to would certainly boost/strengthen my chances as opposed to merely general letters? 

[london2015]

Hi,

 

 Quick question if you ask for a specific reference letter for speciality X, and its a strong letter can you use if for a a different speciality Y or does that look bad? I have developed a interested in a second speciality and I would like to apply but all of my letters are specific for a different speciality. 

 

Thanks for the help :-) 

[Lactic Folly]

Yes, I would suggest having specialty-specific letters if at all possible. It should not require much work from your referees if you are only applying to a couple of disciplines.

 

No, I would definitely not submit letters written for specialty X to programs in specialty Y. If a committee has any doubt about a student's true interest and commitment to a specialty, this would probably clinch it and get your file tossed. It's kind of like stating that you want to attend school X in your letter to school Y. Just go back to your referees and explain your situation.

[LittleDaisy]

I guess that it woud look bad as Lactic Folly said.

I guess that you could go back to your referee, and ask him or her to write a specific letter for your second speciality.

Even a general letter in this case for your second speciality would be more fitting, than a letter praising you to be a neurosurgeon for internal medicine programs (for example). 

Hi,

 

 Quick question if you ask for a specific reference letter for speciality X, and its a strong letter can you use if for a a different speciality Y or does that look bad? I have developed a interested in a second speciality and I would like to apply but all of my letters are specific for a different speciality. 

 

Thanks for the help :-)