intouch Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm an msi3 with a couple of questions about neurosurg residencies in Canada... 1. In your opinion, what schools would you recommend for a student who was interested more in clinical medicine than research...? We all know the research schools, but fewer people comment on which the clinically excellent, less research based, schools are. 2. What is the status of a resident's workload? I know this has been addressed, but it's constantly in flux, and any discussion on the web is tainted by US experiences. I know 1in 4 is the standard, but what are the other requirements in a normal week at your program? 3. I know neurosurg has had the reputation of not having a great job market over the last ten years... What is the talk about the next ten on the inside? Is a guy crazy for expecting to come out of a Canadian program with a good recommendation and have a job within 6 months? I'll take any and all advice, even if it is 'run the other way'. Am just enthralled with neurosurg and it's time to get serious pretty quickly one way or another. Please feel free to pm me with thoughts... I'd like honest opinions. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I'm an msi3 with a couple of questions about neurosurg residencies in Canada... 1. In your opinion, what schools would you recommend for a student who was interested more in clinical medicine than research...? We all know the research schools, but fewer people comment on which the clinically excellent, less research based, schools are. 2. What is the status of a resident's workload? I know this has been addressed, but it's constantly in flux, and any discussion on the web is tainted by US experiences. I know 1in 4 is the standard, but what are the other requirements in a normal week at your program? 3. I know neurosurg has had the reputation of not having a great job market over the last ten years... What is the talk about the next ten on the inside? Is a guy crazy for expecting to come out of a Canadian program with a good recommendation and have a job within 6 months? I'll take any and all advice, even if it is 'run the other way'. Am just enthralled with neurosurg and it's time to get serious pretty quickly one way or another. Please feel free to pm me with thoughts... I'd like honest opinions. Thanks in advance You are unlikely to get a response from any actual neurosurgery residents here since they're either working or asleep, with little time to post on Internet message boards. I am not a neurosurgery resident, but I have worked with and know enough of them that I will venture a reply: 1) The job market in Canada is such that without an advanced academic degree (MSc at a bare minimum, more likely a PhD) you will never practice here. In my limited understanding, there are no programs that focus solely on producing good clinicians / good technical surgeons. That part is assumed, and you need to be an academician on top of it. 2) When I was on-service, and when I wasn't on-service but working on a related team like I am now, the NSx residents would be on 1:3 - 1:4, and post-call they would stay and operate until late afternoon. So they'd get to the hospital at 6AM on Monday, round, do what there were assigned to do, be up all night on-call, round again at 6AM on Tuesday and then operate until 3PM or so. They were actually excited about operating post-call, since there were no distractions (ie emerg and the floor were paging somebody else). Go home, sleep and come back to do it all over again. Lather, rinse, repeat x5 years and then don't get a job at the end. 3) The job market is terrible. Unless you can't see yourself doing anything else but neurosurgery, run the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Repeat x 6 years (I think all programs are 6). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 I am currently a neurosurgery chief resident, and the stories are true. The job situation is pretty bad. You will likely need a PhD to stand a chance of getting a job outside your home program. I know several folks doing 2-4 years of fellowship to be competitive. That said, it is not all so bad... The actual clinical work is fascinating. Clipping aneurysms still makes me feel like a million bucks. Saving people from death with a bedside EVD is pretty neat. Spinal instrumentation is pretty cool to do. Being in the OR is pretty much always fun for me, so it doesn't feel like work, really. The job market is great in the USA, so there is always that possibility. If you're dead set on staying in Canada, then it gets much harder, but I know young neurosurgery staff with minimal research and 1 fellowship who got hired by their home program, so it is still doable, especially in smaller programs. Despite all the issues with this field, I am still glad I get to be trained in it. Maybe I am crazy, but I suspect that I will be practicing neurosurgery for the majority of my life, regardless of many hoops I have to jump through to get there. And that, my friend, is pretty exciting. P.S. My plan B is to be a stay-at-home dad. Not too shabby either, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andrea55 Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Quick Question- I have heard (so could very well be wrong) that the neurosurgery residency training in Canada is different from that in the US? and that due to those differences the US does not recognize a Canadian residency? is there any truth in that? thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Blake, my friend. You are certainly one of my favorite posters. I admire your love for neurosurgery. I was told that a Canadian neurosurgery board is invalid in the states, and that Canadian training in neurosurgery is not transferrable. Is this true? Thanks man! A canadian neurosurgery board certification is valid in the USA, and they know this. Officially however, they will not really recognize it to be equal to their training. Some states may give you an harder time then some others, but bottom line is that recent canadian grads have been hired all across the country. Lawyers may need to get involved, but it's definitely doable, if you're desired. I know a guy who is currently sitting on 3 job offers in the states (Florida, California, Washington), so it's not all limited to Idaho and Wisconsin (not that there is anything wrong with those places). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Quick Question- I have heard (so could very well be wrong) that the neurosurgery residency training in Canada is different from that in the US? and that due to those differences the US does not recognize a Canadian residency? is there any truth in that? thank you ! Zero truth to that, in my opinion. Canadian training is pretty homogeneous, unlike american training which is more hit and miss. Don't get me wrong, most american neurosurgery centers would be excellent places to train, but there are places where you shouldn't even set a foot. The only difference I can see is that the americans spend 7 years for their residency (6-8 years programs are rare), whereas we spend 6 years. They may give you a hard time if you haven't completed "x" amount of neurosurgery blocks during your residency, due to it being shorter, but again this shouldn't stop you from getting a job south of the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intouch Posted September 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Thanks for replying... and Blake for taking the time to respond! Can't be too screaming busy if you're on premed 101 haha. Any thoughts on Dalhousie's program? And is doing the six years and then a fellowship or two seen as relatively equal to just doing the six with a msc or phd in the middle? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I don't understand, why do they prep Neurosurgeons to be so research involved? You wouldn't think they'd have much time for it with their schedules. What are the Neurologists and Neuroscientists for then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I don't understand, why do they prep Neurosurgeons to be so research involved? You wouldn't think they'd have much time for it with their schedules. What are the Neurologists and Neuroscientists for then? The neurologists manage non surgical diseases of the brain (migraines, ischemic strokes, seizures). Neuroscientists research basic neurological science. The research Neuro Surg does is generally much more directly clinically applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewfieMike Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 a select few Canadian neurosurgeons manage to pull off both a clinical practice AND running a basic science lab. I've seen some examples of this done incredibly well (Tymianski published in Nature this year), but I've also seen some examples where too much committment in one area puts stress on the other. It's unique, but inspiring, to do both well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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