Annual Specialty Competitiveness Stats

[ellorie]

I'm not surprised that it was easier to get neurosurg than neurology.  The hours are godawful and I bet it's a pretty self-selecting/small pool of actually serious applicants.

[ralk]

I'm curious as to how the chances of matching an alternative discipline is determined. Wouldn't that depend on what alternative discipline you choose? Also, why are there such huge differences between specialties with respect to your chances of matching to an alternative discipline? Is it because your first choice is too specialized? For example: ophto looks terrible but derm looks much better with respect to chances of matching to alt. discipline. 

 

Why do you guys feel Emerg is so competitive? This is news to me. 

 

Well, the chances themselves are just from the stats available - it's hard to say exactly why the chances of getting into an alternative specialty vary from one specialty to another.

 

As you mention, I think it's likely a combination of unwillingness of applicants going for that specialty to back up into another specialty (eg if you're gunning for Plastics, are you really going to be happy in Family?) and an inability to realistically back up into another specialty while staying competitive for your desired specialty (eg Ophtho has little overlap with other fields).

 

There's a full thread on why Emerg is competitive, so I'll direct you there, but the gist is that it's a field with variety, low total working hours (even if it is shift work), good-to-great job prospects, and reasonable pay. It's been this way for several years - check out the CFMS stats from the past years.

[ellorie]

The other thing with ophtho is that it's one of the rare specialties where (apparently) taking a year after med school to do research is looked on favourably.  So perhaps people feel like they have more options if they don't match.

[thsc]

Just wondering where internventional radiology falls under? Is that a subspecialty within diagnostic rads or does it fall under internal? 

[ralk]

Just wondering where internventional radiology falls under? Is that a subspecialty within diagnostic rads or does it fall under internal? 

 

Diagnostic radiology subspecialty. If you're ever wondering about what first-entry residencies lead to what areas of practice or subspecialties, that's all available through the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons - there's a handy table here.

[shikimate]

So what happened to the derm programs out east and in Sask? I heard rumor that the one out east lost some staff and had to close down.

[Maruo]

Hey guys,

 

Firstly, thanks so much for compiling the stats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but ralk's post indicates that applicants with a first choice of Dermatology are given alternates more often than those with a first choice in, say, Neuropathology.

 

I've done a lot of reading on the forums, but a lot of questions still remain in my mind. For example, what do the hours of these specializations look like? How many work through the night versus regular hours? Perhaps it's a bit taboo, but I'm also interested in finding out the wages of each specialization. Are there any resources out there? Right now (thanks to these forums), I only have a rough idea of what specializations are competitive.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[ralk]

Hey guys,

 

Firstly, thanks so much for compiling the stats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but ralk's post indicates that applicants with a first choice of Dermatology are given alternates more often than those with a first choice in, say, Neuropathology.

 

I've done a lot of reading on the forums, but a lot of questions still remain in my mind. For example, what do the hours of these specializations look like? How many work through the night versus regular hours? Perhaps it's a bit taboo, but I'm also interested in finding out the wages of each specialization. Are there any resources out there? Right now (thanks to these forums), I only have a rough idea of what specializations are competitive.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Yes, that would be correct for the stats. The reason those going for Dermatology are given alternate specialties at such a high rate is, of course, because so many of them don't get Dermatology, while in Neuropathology everyone who went for it got it.

 

In terms of work hours and salary, the RBC Residency Guide provides a decent starting point, even if it is a bit outdated (I think there might be a more recent version out there somewhere, but I've yet to find it). There are a few other resources floating out there on salary - the CMA Specialty Profiles provide some incomplete information on that front, and other surveys have been done if you search around for them. Most schools will give you some introduction to the bigger specialties through lunchtime or evening talks, which helps provide some background information. Otherwise talking to people in the field is the way to go. Even within a specialty, there's often a lot of variation on work hours and salary, and it's hard to pin down what the potential trade-offs in a specialty are without hearing how those in the specialty live and work.

[Maruo]

Yes, that would be correct for the stats. The reason those going for Dermatology are given alternate specialties at such a high rate is, of course, because so many of them don't get Dermatology, while in Neuropathology everyone who went for it got it.

 

In terms of work hours and salary, the RBC Residency Guide provides a decent starting point, even if it is a bit outdated (I think there might be a more recent version out there somewhere, but I've yet to find it). There are a few other resources floating out there on salary - the CMA Specialty Profiles provide some incomplete information on that front, and other surveys have been done if you search around for them. Most schools will give you some introduction to the bigger specialties through lunchtime or evening talks, which helps provide some background information. Otherwise talking to people in the field is the way to go. Even within a specialty, there's often a lot of variation on work hours and salary, and it's hard to pin down what the potential trade-offs in a specialty are without hearing how those in the specialty live and work.

 

Thanks- I'll do some reading on them! Also, FYI: the link you posted for the RBC Residency guide is the 9th edition from 2011, but I found a 10th edition copy on google.

[thsc]

Yes, that would be correct for the stats. The reason those going for Dermatology are given alternate specialties at such a high rate is, of course, because so many of them don't get Dermatology, while in Neuropathology everyone who went for it got it.

 

In terms of work hours and salary, the RBC Residency Guide provides a decent starting point, even if it is a bit outdated (I think there might be a more recent version out there somewhere, but I've yet to find it). There are a few other resources floating out there on salary - the CMA Specialty Profiles provide some incomplete information on that front, and other surveys have been done if you search around for them. Most schools will give you some introduction to the bigger specialties through lunchtime or evening talks, which helps provide some background information. Otherwise talking to people in the field is the way to go. Even within a specialty, there's often a lot of variation on work hours and salary, and it's hard to pin down what the potential trade-offs in a specialty are without hearing how those in the specialty live and work.

I doubt that it's because so many people don't get Derm. The same goes for plastics and ophtho too but the alternative matching rate is much lower. 

[ralk]

I doubt that it's because so many people don't get Derm. The same goes for plastics and ophtho too but the alternative matching rate is much lower. 

 

Well, you can't match to an alternative specialty unless you don't match to your desired specialty. The alternate specialty match rate for those going for Derm couldn't be as high as it is unless the match rate for Derm itself was as low as it is. Yes, other specialties with a low 1st choice match rate do not have as high an alternative specialty match as Derm for various reasons, but the high alternate specialty match rate in Derm, more than anything, reflects the low match rate to that specialty itself. Family medicine, for example, has a very low alternate specialty match rate, but because 96% of people get that specialty, it really couldn't be higher than 4%.

[ralk]

Thanks- I'll do some reading on them! Also, FYI: the link you posted for the RBC Residency guide is the 9th edition from 2011, but I found a 10th edition copy on google.

 

Go with the more recent version - I'll admit I didn't look to hard

[IreadaboutthatinLillys]

Any chance someone can do the stats like last year? (Ralk?), who found the percentage of CMGs who chose a specific specialty as their first choice, and successfully matched to it in the First Round? (like so--> http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/78264-carms-2014-statistics/?p=893537)

[ralk]

Any chance someone can do the stats like last year? (Ralk?), who found the percentage of CMGs who chose a specific specialty as their first choice, and successfully matched to it in the First Round? (like so--> http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/78264-carms-2014-statistics/?p=893537)

 

It's earlier in the thread - here's the link again   Stats are available here.

[IreadaboutthatinLillys]

It's earlier in the thread - here's the link again   Stats are available here.

Thanks!

[Economist]

Go with the more recent version - I'll admit I didn't look to hard

What are 'medial specialties' ? and where are the internal medicine subspecialties? Are they grouped with internal medicine all together?

[ralk]

What are 'medial specialties' ? and where are the internal medicine subspecialties? Are they grouped with internal medicine all together?

 

Not sure I understand the first question, could you rephrase it?

 

As for where the internal medicine subspecialties are, they're a separate match done after someone has done 3 years of internal medicine. The main CaRMS match (or R1 residency match) is only for programs that take students directly from medical school, so internal medicine subspecialties aren't included. So they're sort of grouped with internal medicine, but really it's a distinct stage in the training process within Canada.

[Economist]

Not sure I understand the first question, could you rephrase it?

 

As for where the internal medicine subspecialties are, they're a separate match done after someone has done 3 years of internal medicine. The main CaRMS match (or R1 residency match) is only for programs that take students directly from medical school, so internal medicine subspecialties aren't included. So they're sort of grouped with internal medicine, but really it's a distinct stage in the training process within Canada.

Sorry I thought the conversation was regarding the average salary listed under the RBC residency guide. 

Under the average salary page, there is a specialization listed as "medical specialties", with the average salary of "287,665". I'm assuming this is NOT an average for all specializations.

 

Also the average salary for internal medicine was "345,358", which was higher than I expected.

 

Page 173 in this link in case anyone was interested 

[ralk]

Sorry I thought the conversation was regarding the average salary listed under the RBC residency guide. 

Under the average salary page, there is a specialization listed as "medical specialties", with the average salary of "287,665". I'm assuming this is NOT an average for all specializations.

 

Also the average salary for internal medicine was "345,358", which was higher than I expected.

 

Page 173 in this link in case anyone was interested 

 

Ah, sorry, didn't pick up on the context, that makes sense.

 

In that document, I'm pretty sure "Medical Specialties" means every specialty that's not family medicine or a surgical specialty, so including specialties like Internal, Psych, Peds, and Emerg. The specific "Internal Medicine" category I'd assume includes subspecialists, since general internal doesn't tend to pay quite that much (but many subspecialties definitely do).

[chromeboker]

Going to be a competitive year for Anesthesia!! The most applicants ever (15% increase) from what I heard through the grapevine. I suspect Family Med will be the same.

[rmorelan]

sounds unofficially like rads will be down again

 

not that surprising actually I guess!

[LittleDaisy]

Why is rads going down? Lack of job market?

[thestar10]

The reasons I've heard are

1. Jobs are fewer and more often fellowships are becoming the norm

2. Lifestyle is getting worse. All the imaging we do at night is making cal heavier.

3 Feelings that pay will get cut even more by the government.

4.with long term storage of images very easy to go back and see something that was missed (important if canada ever becomes as litigious as the states)

[GrouchoMarx]

sounds like pathology but only with nights!

[Dermviser]

sounds like pathology but only with nights!

 

If only pathology didn't have those uncertainties... i'd be ranking it #1 and running with it