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A little late on this but congratulation on matching your #1 program!

 

I was hoping if you could elaborate more on your multiple publications, including advice on when to start research, who/what to look for, etc. I am potentially interested in neurology and would like to get a head start in planning my M1 summer before I begin school this August. Thanks in advance!

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A little late on this but congratulation on matching your #1 program!

 

I was hoping if you could elaborate more on your multiple publications, including advice on when to start research, who/what to look for, etc. I am potentially interested in neurology and would like to get a head start in planning my M1 summer before I begin school this August. Thanks in advance!

 

Fantastic that you have an idea of what you are interested in (neurology). My take is that class rank (=> eligibility for AOA, knowledge to do well on boards) all go hand in hand and, generally speaking, trump research productivity. For this reason, take the first few months of your school year to really get going mastering the material at your medical school. Figure out your study method and stick to it, do not listen to or be affected by what everyone else is doing if something is working well for you. You can be looking for interesting projects during this time...simply don't overextend and jump into one until you figure out how to do very well with the material. 

 

Once you figure that out, the answer is pretty straightforward. Don't be shy to send e-mails and meet with attendings/residents who have ongoing neuro projects. In some departments (typically at the more elite medical schools) there will be gateway keepers (so to speak) who handle all departmental research matters. Find a project you love and get going with it by halfway through M1 or by end of M1. Keep it clinical (unless you are a wet lab superstar...and even then the benefits of being able to publish quickly in the clinical realm outweight the process of basic science publications...in the real world basic science >> clinical research but in the world of residency apps it is often the # of publications you carry that matters...keep all of this in mind).

 

Simply do what you are interested in and bust your ass. If the research doesn't work out in terms of publications then at least you have your academic qualifications to rely on if you follow the above priority. You do not need a bona fide research resume to match at the best places...but you need to be clinically competent and at the very least rank in the top half of your class (ideally more) to have a shot.

 

Congratulations on starting medical school!

 

ps: neurology is one of the least competitive specialties in the US overall so a great track record should make it that much easier to make it to the Partners, UCSF cream of the crop type programs

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  • 3 months later...

s/p 3 months into internship, bumping. Again seeing unnecessary uncertainty on this board with regards to matching and visa issues (which at the elite level are almost non-existent).

 

Read through this thread and message me with any questions. Internship has been exhausting but also a blast. I'll try to respond in a decent amount of time.

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks for this post GGGSaint and congrats on your success!

 

I am happy to see somebody with firsthand experience dispel a lot of the misinformation being spread on this forum that is deterring students from pursuing USMD. Also glad to see that Canadians have equal chances at matching to top US programs with opportunities for H1B if we do well.

 

I hope this gets stickied!

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  • 3 weeks later...

s/p 3 months into internship, bumping. Again seeing unnecessary uncertainty on this board with regards to matching and visa issues (which at the elite level are almost non-existent).

 

Read through this thread and message me with any questions. Internship has been exhausting but also a blast. I'll try to respond in a decent amount of time.

 By the bolded, are you saying that if one manages to match to an "elite level" residency, then getting an H1B will not be a problem? 

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 By the bolded, are you saying that if one manages to match to an "elite level" residency, then getting an H1B will not be a problem? 

 

Precisely. Typically these institutions have the resources and want the best. So yes indeed, H1B will not be a problem at *almost* all of them.

 

Thanks for this post GGGSaint and congrats on your success!

 

I am happy to see somebody with firsthand experience dispel a lot of the misinformation being spread on this forum that is deterring students from pursuing USMD. Also glad to see that Canadians have equal chances at matching to top US programs with opportunities for H1B if we do well.

 

I hope this gets stickied!

 

Absolutely JellyBones. Glad to be able to do so.

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  • 2 months later...

2/3 through internship, another possibly timely bump. Hope everyone is having a beautiful 2016 thus far.

 

 

Hi GGG

 

I got tons of Q's, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to match as a Canadian MD in NRMP if you have done well on Step 1/2 ? I'm very interested in neurosurgery and I may have the very real possibility of having to choose between a super expensive, but good american MD program, and a cheaper but decent Canadian MD program. However, due to restrictions by the ABNS, it would make sense to do the residency in the US. Thoughts?

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Hi GGG

 

I got tons of Q's, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to match as a Canadian MD in NRMP if you have done well on Step 1/2 ? I'm very interested in neurosurgery and I may have the very real possibility of having to choose between a super expensive, but good american MD program, and a cheaper but decent Canadian MD program. However, due to restrictions by the ABNS, it would make sense to do the residency in the US. Thoughts?

Go Canadian med degree. Do steps on your own and then apply broadly NRMP. Look at nrmp.match data and you will see 2 CMGs doing neurosurgery in the US.

 

I'll let OP throw his/her info in..but can't imagine they will tell you to spend 250k extra for the us MD just for slightly easier time with setting up electives.

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Hi GGG

 

I got tons of Q's, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to match as a Canadian MD in NRMP if you have done well on Step 1/2 ? I'm very interested in neurosurgery and I may have the very real possibility of having to choose between a super expensive, but good american MD program, and a cheaper but decent Canadian MD program. However, due to restrictions by the ABNS, it would make sense to do the residency in the US. Thoughts?

 

Hi bearpuppy,

 

Fascinating question given you will be choosing between Case Western (fantastic school) and potentially Calgary/Alberta. Please do me a small favor if you don't mind, and clarify specifically what you are referring to regarding the restrictions and how that impacts your future plans? I need to know your longer term goals (and you can PM me here) to give a full answer.

 

With this said, without knowing more about you, just a few thoughts:

-You can match neurosurgery in the US coming from a Canadian medical school as the above poster pointed out

-There are a handful of US medical schools that anyone should take above anything in Canada...Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, Stanford...no argument to be had

-Case Western is right on the cusp of making this a conversation

-More so, the opportunities to rotate through the neurosurgery department at the Cleveland Clinic (easily in the second echelon of the elite neurosurgery programs in the country...not just quite there as the Barrow and UCSF but close) as a medical student at Case is fantastic

-You have to realize that the risk/reward game is higher stakes in the US and if your goal is to be a neurosurgeon period then staying in Canada is the way to go...if your goal is to be an academic heavyweight (this applies to very few doctors in any specialty!) in the field of neurosurgery then beyond Toronto Neurosurgery you should be looking at the Hopkins, UCSF's of the world (very few Canadian residencies match up at the very top to the top in the US, but in fact Toronto Neurosurgery is one of the few exceptions and rightfully so)

-Going to the US means understanding that you absolutely will need to be close to the top of your class, rock the boards, publish, and secure at least senior AOA to match at a *top* neurosurgery residency (the Case Western name as a medical student won't force doors open but neither will it close them and that's more than you can ask of most schools for this purpose)...doing all of the above is no easy feat but several Canadians do it in the US every year across the country

 

We can discuss things further by PM if you don't want to share your goals/details. Thanks for posting this excellent and interesting question.

 

So without further details from you my answer is stay in Canada if you have the Alberta or Calgary options.

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USMD>USDO>Carribs>Ireland/UK>EU>Aust

 

thats my scale lol

 

Caribbean is definitely not better than Ireland or the UK for IMGs, first of all the resources provided are uncomparable. In Ireland and UK you are using resources that they provide to their own students whereas in the Caribbean it is a for profit school with no research and poor facilities. On top of that you get continuity with training in the UK because you stay at the school's affiliated hospitals for rotations, whereas in the Caribbean finding good rotations is in and of itself a challenge. Lastly, both countries have higher standards than even the most competitive Caribbean school and the drop out rate is insanely high in the Caribbean compared to Ireland or the UK. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi bearpuppy,

 

Fascinating question given you will be choosing between Case Western (fantastic school) and potentially Calgary/Alberta. Please do me a small favor if you don't mind, and clarify specifically what you are referring to regarding the restrictions and how that impacts your future plans? I need to know your longer term goals (and you can PM me here) to give a full answer.

 

With this said, without knowing more about you, just a few thoughts:

-You can match neurosurgery in the US coming from a Canadian medical school as the above poster pointed out

-There are a handful of US medical schools that anyone should take above anything in Canada...Harvard, Yale, Hopkins, Stanford...no argument to be had

-Case Western is right on the cusp of making this a conversation

-More so, the opportunities to rotate through the neurosurgery department at the Cleveland Clinic (easily in the second echelon of the elite neurosurgery programs in the country...not just quite there as the Barrow and UCSF but close) as a medical student at Case is fantastic

-You have to realize that the risk/reward game is higher stakes in the US and if your goal is to be a neurosurgeon period then staying in Canada is the way to go...if your goal is to be an academic heavyweight (this applies to very few doctors in any specialty!) in the field of neurosurgery then beyond Toronto Neurosurgery you should be looking at the Hopkins, UCSF's of the world (very few Canadian residencies match up at the very top to the top in the US, but in fact Toronto Neurosurgery is one of the few exceptions and rightfully so)

-Going to the US means understanding that you absolutely will need to be close to the top of your class, rock the boards, publish, and secure at least senior AOA to match at a *top* neurosurgery residency (the Case Western name as a medical student won't force doors open but neither will it close them and that's more than you can ask of most schools for this purpose)...doing all of the above is no easy feat but several Canadians do it in the US every year across the country

 

We can discuss things further by PM if you don't want to share your goals/details. Thanks for posting this excellent and interesting question.

 

So without further details from you my answer is stay in Canada if you have the Alberta or Calgary options.

 

 

Hi there - sorry for the delayed response.

 

Restrictions: my understanding is that the ABNS does not allow you to get certified in the US for practice if you did not complete a US residency. This is mainly due to the time difference (7 years vs 6 in Canada). It seems as though there are no ways around it. I know this doesn't limit your ability to obtain a licence, but it may make it a challenge to find a job. 

 

Long term goals: part research, part clinician. Probably a 60/40 split (one way or the other, depending on how much I enjoy the clinical aspect). I have a PhD in Medical Genetics (with a neuroscience thesis) and would like to stay in that area, as well as a postdoc in cancer biol. so my primary interests are brain dev and tumours.

 

Right now the US options are as follows: accepted @ SUNY Upstate & Case. ??? pending final decision WashU; interviewing next week @ Dartmouth. I don't think I'll get WashU, and their financial arrangements are less flexible than Case, making it a bigger challenge to attend. 

Canadian options: Calgary/Alberta, with Toronto still as a possible interview (but unlikely)

 

I completely agree about the Cleveland Clinic - would be an awesome place to gain experience and get some great reference letters for the residency programs. 

 

For sure - going to the US will be a challenge for the reasons you've listed. At least as far as pubs go, I have 7 and 2 in review. 

 

So given all of the above - let's say I end up having to choose between Calgary/Alberta and Case. Would your recommendation be to take CAN and just work my *SS off for top USMLE scores? or would you take the financial hit and do Case instead? One major concern is that at Calgary specifically I will have limited time to do well on the USMLE given the compressed timeframe and reduced vacation time to study. 

 

Thoughts? Feel free to discuss here onr in PM. And thank you for your time!

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Congratulations on having matched into a top residency program! I really enjoyed your post on matching NRMP and it gave me a lot of insight on what I have to do a couple years down the road. 

 

I've been accepted by BUSM so far and I really want to ensure that I can match into a decent residency if I do go to BUSM. Fyi, I am not set on any particular specialty yet, but I want to put myself in a good position so I will have options when it comes time to match. 

 

With the recent limitations set by Health Canada on Statement of Needs, I'm actually quite concerned about obtaining a J1. So I'm hoping to be competitive enough to match CARMS or get a miracle H1B for the NRMP.

 

I know the focus of your original thread was not about matching CARMS, but do you happen to have any suggestions to improve my chances of matching CAMRS? I'm quite concerned about the R1 match rate of USMGs posted on CARMS in 2015; even though we're in the CMG stream, only 26 out of 44 matched. Was this just because people were gunning for competitive specialties or a lack of awareness of what Canadian residencies are looking for? I heard board scores are not that valued, whereas electives in Canada and good LORs (esp written by Canadians) are.

 

In terms of matching NRMP and getting H1B, I'm kind of skeptical about why a residency will choose to go through all the paperwork and spend over 10 grand to sponsor a foreign student when they can just hire their own citizen. Of course, as you said, you'd have to be very stellar, but I feel like for me at least, that may not be very realistic. So, let's say I match NRMP and get the OPT for PGY1, if I can't secure the H1B, is it still logistically possible to secure a J1?
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And yes almost everyone I know in the US, who end up applying carms, ONLY apply for competitive programs or big cities. None of them wanted to rank less desirable programs as they would have much preffered a solid US program over Manitoba or newfoundland(no offense, just not everyone's cup of tea).

 

That contributes majorly to the statistics

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And yes, if you somehow mess up getting the h1b it is logistically possible to get the j1 while on opti-f1

 

Its the same process as if you had went for it in the first place

Assuming I go down this route and start my PGY1 on a OPT-F1, does that mean I have a better chance at getting a J1 since I can request a Statement of Need at a much earlier date than M4s applying in that same year?

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Assuming I go down this route and start my PGY1 on a OPT-F1, does that mean I have a better chance at getting a J1 since I can request a Statement of Need at a much earlier date than M4s applying in that same year?

Not necessarily, you do have a built in 2nd chance however.  I believe you can only apply for SON once match results are provided. But i mean, in all fairness to you - you could simply have everything already done and signed off...and shipped in the mail to arrive on match day, before your "competitors" for the SON would even have the knowledge of their results.

 

So i guess, yes, you can have all the documentation and stuff done well in advance and ship it a few days before match day to ensure it arrived on match day.

 

 

BUT, i thought they may have switched over to electronic delivery? I am unsure and will ask some peers. Like i said, most i know in the current match are H1B people..

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Congratulations on having matched into a top residency program! I really enjoyed your post on matching NRMP and it gave me a lot of insight on what I have to do a couple years down the road. 
 
I've been accepted by BUSM so far and I really want to ensure that I can match into a decent residency if I do go to BUSM. Fyi, I am not set on any particular specialty yet, but I want to put myself in a good position so I will have options when it comes time to match. 
 
With the recent limitations set by Health Canada on Statement of Needs, I'm actually quite concerned about obtaining a J1. So I'm hoping to be competitive enough to match CARMS or get a miracle H1B for the NRMP.
 
I know the focus of your original thread was not about matching CARMS, but do you happen to have any suggestions to improve my chances of matching CAMRS? I'm quite concerned about the R1 match rate of USMGs posted on CARMS in 2015; even though we're in the CMG stream, only 26 out of 44 matched. Was this just because people were gunning for competitive specialties or a lack of awareness of what Canadian residencies are looking for? I heard board scores are not that valued, whereas electives in Canada and good LORs (esp written by Canadians) are.
 
In terms of matching NRMP and getting H1B, I'm kind of skeptical about why a residency will choose to go through all the paperwork and spend over 10 grand to sponsor a foreign student when they can just hire their own citizen. Of course, as you said, you'd have to be very stellar, but I feel like for me at least, that may not be very realistic. So, let's say I match NRMP and get the OPT for PGY1, if I can't secure the H1B, is it still logistically possible to secure a J1?

 

 

 

as far as I'm aware, this is actually incorrect. It's at most about $5000 USD. 

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  • 1 month later...

as far as I'm aware, this is actually incorrect. It's at most about $5000 USD. 

You are correct.

 

Also, many programs will have no problem paying that 5000$, if it means they get a better Candidate. 

 

Of the 30 Canadian USDOs matched in 2016, about half are on the H1B pathway in specialties of Rad Onc, FM, IM, ENT/Plastics etc.

 

Sure, some places will have no reason to sponsor the H1B, but others will. 

 

5000$ is a drop in the bucket for the right candidate, as well - sometimes they can take some of that cost out of your "educational stipends" that they allocate for your residency tenure.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 months later...
  • 3 months later...
  • 3 months later...

Two months out from becoming a Senior Assistant Resident. 

 

The inquires have trickled down. I will still work to check in every 3 months or so. Please feel free to continue messaging me if you have any questions about matching residency in the US as a Canadian citizen only. 

 

Good luck in your medical careers!

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