Value Of Non Clinical Research For Residency

[anesthete]

Hi all

I have the opportunity to work on a few projects with a high likelihood of being published. They are on non clinical topics that very marginally relate (if at all) to specialties I am looking at for CaRMS. It will take a fairly substantial time commitment...but it isn't at the expense of other things at this point as I am only in first year. Is it a worthwhile investment of my time at this stage?

 

I come from a background in academia where it is publish publish publish... but perhaps that isn't the main focus during med school? Or should it be, if you can manage it? Or should I only focus on the summer time higher-yield discipline specific research?

 

Thanks for any and all opinions!

[ralk]

Non-clinical research with minimal applicability to specialties of interest probably isn't worth a major time commitment if your major consideration for taking those roles is CaRMS applications. It's certainly not going to hurt, and might help somewhat, but if it takes away from more directly applicable work - both research and non-research activities - it could be a negative on the balance. Keep in mind that while you may not be busy yet, that can change quickly. Opportunities only grow from here, while research tends to demand more time than initially expected and often goes on for longer than intended.

 

Publications do matter at this stage and are a worthy goal, but really aren't the thing to focus on to the exclusion of other criteria. A presentation at a good conference in a relevant field is likely going to mean much more than a publication in something completely unrelated unless you're publishing in Science or something like that.

 

Whether you should instead focus on discipline-specific research really depends on what disciplines you're looking at. More competitive specialties do seem to place a premium on research done in their field. Less competitive specialties might not care much if you spent the whole summer relaxing provided you're capable from a clinical perspective. There's no simple answer to what to do in pre-clerkship. Mostly just do activities you find interesting or enjoyable while you figure out exactly what specialties you'd like to focus on for CaRMS.

 

Well, unless you'd keen on Derm or Plastics, in which case gun and gun hard

[sleeping_sickness]

non-clinical research is of value, especially basic science research. if it's non-clinical and in another field entirely than i wouldn't go there. 

[Dermviser]

 

Well, unless you'd keen on Derm or Plastics, in which case gun and gun hard

 

Is derm really that competitive in Canada?

[ralk]

Is derm really that competitive in Canada?

Consistently one of the most competitive specialties in the country, yup.

[Dermviser]

Consistently one of the most competitive specialties in the country, yup.

 

Interesting... any reason why...? How does one applicant seperate himself from the other usually...?

[ralk]

Interesting... any reason why...? How does one applicant seperate himself from the other usually...?

 

Good job market, good pay, good hours. Derm's about the only specialty that can unequivocally lay claim to all three.

 

I'm not going for Derm, so I can't speak definitively about what applicants do, but clinical performance is obviously important and research within the field I'm told is fairly meaningful.

[Dermviser]

Good job market, good pay, good hours. Derm's about the only specialty that can unequivocally lay claim to all three.

 

 

I wonder how long that will last... though I hope it does   We were saying the same about rads a few years ago...

[mononoke]

Good job market, good pay, good hours. Derm's about the only specialty that can unequivocally lay claim to all three.

 

I'm not going for Derm, so I can't speak definitively about what applicants do, but clinical performance is obviously important and research within the field I'm told is fairly meaningful.

Wouldn't that also be the case for psych and family - they also have good for those three.

[ralk]

Wouldn't that also be the case for psych and family - they also have good for those three.

 

Both psych and family have low compensation by physician standards. It's still "good pay" in my books, since pretty much every physician makes a good salary, and there are some practice types that can really clean up in those specialties, but on the whole they're towards the bottom of the pay scale for physicians, not the top.

[mononoke]

Both psych and family have low compensation by physician standards. It's still "good pay" in my books, since pretty much every physician makes a good salary, and there are some practice types that can really clean up in those specialties, but on the whole they're towards the bottom of the pay scale for physicians, not the top.

What do you mean by this? Group practice?

[ralk]

What do you mean by this? Group practice?

 

Rural family health teams with ER coverage can really do quite well, money-wise, but like I said, these are the exception, not the rule.

[Bambi]

Or should I only focus on the summer time higher-yield discipline specific research?

 

Thanks for any and all opinions!

Mostly, I enjoyed my summers during medical school. One summer over a month, I did a literature review and got published, which led to speaking at a conference of specialists in the field. It didn't make the slightest difference for CaRMS. Just my 2 cents.

[Dermviser]

Mostly, I enjoyed my summers during medical school. One summer over a month, I did a literature review and got published, which led to speaking at a conference of specialists in the field. It didn't make the slightest difference for CaRMS. Just my 2 cents.

 

What CaRMS speciality were you going for though

[NLengr]

Research is a very small part of CaRMS matching. It's unlikely to make or break your match, even in the most competitive specialties. That being said, if you are going for something super competitive you probably want some kinda research, just to keep up with the other candidates. It doesn't have to be fancy or complex. The quality of that research probably matters very little, unless you make a ground breaking discovery in your field of choice (which you won't). Mostly all you are doing is jumping through a hoop.

 

Programs know that almost all med student (and resident) research is junk. If it's not junk, it's highly likely that an academic physician did 99.9% of the actual work and the resident/student did the low level labour.

[Dermviser]

Research is a very small part of CaRMS matching. It's unlikely to make or break your match, even in the most competitive specialties. That being said, if you are going for something super competitive you probably want some kinda research, just to keep up with the other candidates. It doesn't have to be fancy or complex. The quality of that research probably matters very little, unless you make a ground breaking discovery in your field of choice (which you won't). Mostly all you are doing is jumping through a hoop.

 

Programs know that almost all med student (and resident) research is junk. If it's not junk, it's highly likely that an academic physician did 99.9% of the actual work and the resident/student did the low level labour.

big  part of ERAS though. crazy how diff eras and carms are

[NLengr]

big  part of ERAS though. crazy how diff eras and carms are

Probably has a lot to do with the fact that CaRMS is about a tenth the size of the US system (or smaller). That means that in the US, there is no way you could ever hope to have all the candidates do an elective at your center. In Canada however, that's not actually that unusual.