Bones13 Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 Any ideas about how competitive Ortho will be this upcoming year? I've heard that some programs may be downsizing which might offset the recent downward trend in competitiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 programs actually do this? if interest goes down they cut spots? thats awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralk Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 programs actually do this? if interest goes down they cut spots? thats awesome! It's usually not in response to interest, but to the job market. The two move in tandem of course, with interest in a specialty typically falling when the job market bottoms out. Likewise, schools do try to increase spots in areas where there's higher demand for services. For example, Western expanded their Psych program recently, I think by moving spots away from surgical programs. It's a very slow process, however, since programs tend to work best with a stable number of residents each year and programs are pretty resistant to losing a spot without a very good reason. Lots of politics involved in these kinds of moves from what I hear, but it does happen. To the OP - I can only guess, but I'd hazard that Ortho's competitiveness won't change by much, even if a spot or two gets eliminated. The horrible job market is still scaring away a lot of potential applicants. I'd expect anyone applying broadly to have a very good chance at matching somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted May 23, 2016 Report Share Posted May 23, 2016 is canadian ortho training valid in the usa? if so then this presents a great opportunity for students interested in ortho who are willing to move south. ortho is one of the most competitive fields to get into in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin92 Posted May 24, 2016 Report Share Posted May 24, 2016 is canadian ortho training valid in the usa? if so then this presents a great opportunity for students interested in ortho who are willing to move south. ortho is one of the most competitive fields to get into in the states. yes it is, just write your usmle's. Canadian grads do go there for fellowship training, Previous threads on this forum have mentioned that the market isn't terrible down south however as expected, the desirable locations are saturated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc_911_doc Posted May 25, 2016 Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 I have several friends applying to ortho who are not backing up with a second specialty but rather applying all across Canada. I think if you are a strong applicant - i.e many ortho electives, strong CV, etc - it's very reasonable to expect to get in somewhere! Also the job market - be aware of it but at the same time recognize that you will be heading into the field 7-8 years from now. That's a lot of time for changes of all kinds - both good and bad! If you really truly love it - don't let that hold you back. Be prepared to deal with it - write the USMLE, be ok with going south for at least a little bit and be ok with the idea of working in a small community doing bread and butter (hips, etc) - but don't let it hold you back. How would you feel if 10 years from now the job market picks up and you are standing on the side lines in another specialty wondering "what if"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones13 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks for the responses! Do your friends have any insights that have led them to forego backing up? My preoccupation with Ortho's competitiveness is to determine whether I need to back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertan10 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 backing up is always the smart thing to do. however, it does become a personal preference. I matched to a program that is statistically much more competitive and didn't back up. Wasn't the smartest thing to do, but it worked out. Plenty of others do the same. Really, just depends on what you want and what your willing to settle for. Ortho has had a pretty good match rate. Hard to know for sure if it'll stay the same. But that's the gamble you have to decide to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc_911_doc Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I had this discussion recently with my schools academic advisor. Surgery is very hard - how do you make a convincing back up application? The surgery programs in particular like to see dedication - most if not all pre-CaRMS in that speciality or something intimately related. So backing up - you pick something that is closely related (Gen Surg and GI i.e. internal , Ortho and Physiatry, etc)? But what if you don't like anything related? What if you like....gen surg and pathology? Or Ortho and Psych? I've seen it happen! That makes it very hard - you either go all in or try and do a split. Which can be dangerous - splitting can weaken your primary surgery app. In fact, if you look at the CCME and match stats thread it seemed that this past year going all in for surgery was becoming the standard. As residency spots get tighter - the best programs will pick the best and most dedicated applicants who show a clear singular goal for that specialty! It's a massive catch-22 with surgery: you can either back up to be safe but it may weaken your app for getting your top choice. Or you can go all in but it may end up in going unmatched. I think the new "backing up" in surgery will be broadly applying to all programs across Canada. As spots to students gets narrower, the programs have the luxury of built in competition and of picking the best. For ortho - I don't think its hugely dangerous to not back up if you're willing to rank anywhere in Canada. No one really bats an eye when family medicine or internal residents do this - no backup but apply broadly. Ortho is slowly growing to be like that - if you look at 2015 stats in ortho, 19/19 women got their 1st choice ortho match and 27/32 men (http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Table_21_First_Choice_Subdiscipline_Preference_and_Match_Results_of_CMGs_by_Gender_English.pdf). That works out to about 90% match rate. Internal was at 95% and family at 96%! (http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Table_19_First_Choice_Discipline_Preference_and_Match_Results_of_CMGs_by_Gender_English.pdf) Psych is thought of as usually very "non-competitive" and they had an 87% match rate - lower than ortho! So - yes you take the risk with not matching. BUT - the risk is proportionally low. 10% in 2015 which is comparable to the 5-6% in the "very non-competitive" specialties and 13% in a "non-competitive" specialty. If this was plastics or derm - re-evaluate. But with ortho - know there's a risk, understand that it's low and then make your decision. Also - CaRMS stats always make things look more competitive than they are because: location! Many people will rank by city (Ortho city A, back up city A, ortho city B, back up city B, etc vs Ortho A, B, C, Back up A, B, C) because they want to be in a certain place. So this makes it more inflated in terms of match rates - if everyone just ranked by discipline it would be a true "match" rate but the personal factor of ranking choices really influences that. Many people would much rather do their backup in Toronto than their main specialty at Memorial or Manitoba! Consider that as well - its another bias in the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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