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I Just Graduated From U Of T And Am A New Associate. Ask Me (Almost) Anything!


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Great thread you have going on here guys! 

 

Question: Cleanup, you mentioned that you turned down multiple associate offers and are fortunate with your current choices. How did you go about choosing which one to accept and which ones to reject? Did you gather information from word of mouth or did you spend some time at each office and/or did they show you numbers? 

 

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I did all of the above.

I turned down A LOT of job offers for a variety of reasons, mostly for not liking the vibe of the staff or if they had had a lot of turnover, especially assistants.

 

I also cared about basic technology like digital x-rays and asked about how much freedom I would have to order my own supplies for things I really cared about using.

 

I also took a keen interest in how the perio programs were set up. If the hygienists didn't probe annually, I wasn't working there. Period.

 

ETA: that was just for my first job, for my second job I was much pickier

 

 

Hi Malkyn, thank you for sharing your thoughts. I was wondering if its rude to ask for numbers during job interview like gross production, overhead, number of active patients? 

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I hit a point last year where I seriously considered my options for leaving clinical practice because I was that miserable and wanted alternatives to making a lateral move.

If you don't mind answering, in general what sorts of options are you referring to?

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Here's the essential summary of my findings of alternatives to clinical practice: there aren't many, so don't get injured, otherwise you're pretty fucked.

 

How can you resist the urge to become faculty and work for ~90-100k a year after all that schooling and debt? :rolleyes: Who else is going to teach all the new gunner kids that enter just to cut corners in clinic to meet requirements and have convenient doctors notes for all of the the hard exams during exam season?

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Dear Cleanup,

 

Thank you for your initiative. I am in third year of dental school and I want to hear your opinion on pursuing a residency. My interest is in Periodontics. My question to you is, how many referrals do GP send out to periodontists. 

 

Many thanks.

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I would like to ask both cleanup and Malkynn, not about the amount of money you make, but how do you find the job so far? Tiring? Fun? Anything you would have liked to know before started to work/pursue dentistry? Any regrets? No rush, thank you :)

 

Both tiring and fun. I wish I knew how expensive life was (and how expensive it is to be a dentist; ie. to be licensed, insured, continually pursuing CE, paying people to manage other aspects of your life, etc.) Regrets: possibly doing a residency. I think I'd be learning more in a residency at this point; my learning is dragged out more being in private practice, but my life is a lot cushier than my friends who are in residency.

 

Great thread you have going on here guys! 

 

Question: Cleanup, you mentioned that you turned down multiple associate offers and are fortunate with your current choices. How did you go about choosing which one to accept and which ones to reject? Did you gather information from word of mouth or did you spend some time at each office and/or did they show you numbers? 

 

I went by gut feeling at first. I ended up leaving my first because it was too far and the hours too demanding (far isn't usually an issue except a 7:30-8 am start made it very, very difficult). I feel bad for leaving that practice as I liked everyone there, but when I was honest with myself I couldn't see it happening long-term.

 

The practice I've been full-time at for the past while I am actually leaving soon, for a multitude of reasons. One is the hours, though not very early, are extremely long (10 hour days), it's still "pretty far" and over time some other issues have cropped up between my principal and I. It's an amicable separation, but I'm glad it's happening.

 

I'll be starting at 2-3 new practices soon, so moving from full-time to piecing together a schedule. I think early in my career this is a good approach, and then I can decide where to cut down and where to build up as I'd like. The big plus side is now that I've been through a bit, I know things to look out for and what to worry about, what not to worry about that much better.

 

As for 'numbers,' no, I try not to ask about that. Though my previous fulltime practice has at least sort of set a standard of expectation for myself, I know that even if I'm below it to begin, it's fine. It can take some time for one to be able to tell if they're meeting their income goals. This is why people job hop a lot.

 

First off - thanks so much for taking the time to do this thread! Do you have any "feel"for what proportion of your fellow grads working in non GTA, (but within Golden Horseshoe) are piecing together work in more than one practice in order to achieve somewhat of a full time status?

 

A few of my classmates work outside of the Golden Horseshoe, but not many. Working in several offices is the norm, rather than the exception. I have one classmate who works in 7 offices.

 

Did you have any problem convincing first practice that you were also going to be working in an alternate practice? (wouldn't the principal be concerned about competition and patients seeking you elsewhere?)

 

It would really only be an issue if it was in the same town, neighbourhood, nearby within a certain radius. It's something you have to discuss with your offices. If it's a very saturated/dense area it may not be as much of a concern. If it's further out the radius of exclusion becomes much larger, because patients tend to travel further to receive dental care.

 

Dear Cleanup,

 

Thank you for your initiative. I am in third year of dental school and I want to hear your opinion on pursuing a residency. My interest is in Periodontics. My question to you is, how many referrals do GP send out to periodontists. 

 

Many thanks.

 

If you're thinking of specializing, you really, really need to like it. As a general dentist, as much as I love doing restorative, it can get boring at times. So imagine you doing the same thing just in a different sub-specialty or scope of work, regularly doing the same things over and over. At least as my career expands, I can pick and choose and expand and narrow my scope as I'd like. There is still some flexibility in specializing, just not as much.

 

Also, one thing to keep in mind is specialists are well paid BECAUSE they work. They have to do the things they're incredibly good at, consistently, in order to earn a good income. You might think "What's so bad about that?" and the answer is 'nothing' other than it's well, tiring, and as a GP, you do have a greater ability to produce passive income. You're being paid when your associates do work. You're being paid when your hygienists do work. You're being paid when your in-house specialists do work.

 

You can hire people to generate income for you as a GP; there are certainly 'associate' roles in specialty fields, it's just not as widespread or common, and not as likely you're going to find a specialist who's okay with being an associate for all or most of their career, while career associates are very common in general practice.

 

Personally I prefer the variety of general dentistry, the fact that I can always turn down what I don't want to do, and I have a greater opportunity to produce passive income.

 

Go shadow some perios. Watch them do surgery. Assist. Immerse yourself in it. If you love it, gun for it. If you have doubts, maybe do a GPR or go private practice for a bit and figure it out. Be patient.

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Haha, depending on how the lawyer takes you for a ride, anyways a way over too restrictive non-compete is almost not enforcible.

 

There are case laws about it.

 

Always work in an area that you have an interest in staying because it is hard to move once you are established.

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