2017 Carms Applicants

[Sarvish]

I can confirm that they did not haha. I think they interviewed everyone who did an elective there though.

[fugacity]

I can confirm that they did not haha. I think they interviewed everyone who did an elective there though.

 

For a school like NOSM (remote, limited number of spots, new program), they are probably similar to rural family medicine program in their selection criteria.  My uneducated guess is that they probably value dedication to the site/program a significant amount (possibly more than performance, which is best addressed by reference letters). 

[LittleDaisy]

I think that generally the LORS are positive, and it is hard to select applicants based on that.

Unless you have an excellent LOR from a senior academic physician who says that you are simply the best medical student he&she has worked with...

I really don't think that programs tell applicants apart based on LOR. Mostly from your MSPR and transcript

NOSM Anesthesiology sent out invites before letter review; did they invite all applicants?

[fugacity]

I think that generally the LORS are positive, and it is hard to select applicants based on that.

Unless you have an excellent LOR from a senior academic physician who says that you are simply the best medical student he&she has worked with...

I really don't think that programs tell applicants apart based on LOR. Mostly from your MSPR and transcript

 

As an UBC student, our MSPR contains minimal information (e.g. no comments from rotations) and we do not have honours as far as our transcript goes.

 

Will make CaRMS a great adventure

[LittleDaisy]

Oh it sucks for you guys!

but some programs specifically want clerkship rotation evaluation forms (I guess that it will help in this case, ITER)

If you could still have some academic scholarships, it still distinguishes you from the rest of the crowd. Regardless of your medical school.

It's not necessarily bad that your MSPR contains minimal information, it leaves you a lot of liberty to whether or not disclose your each rotation's evaluation. 

As an UBC student, our MSPR contains minimal information (e.g. no comments from rotations) and we do not have honours as far as our transcript goes.

 

Will make CaRMS a great adventure

[amichel]

Our student affairs department did a survey of program directors a while back and the moral of the story is that no one really cares about the MSPR since it's so non standardized. And all English schools are pass fail so I can't see the transcript being important either.

[LittleDaisy]

I see...I am from Quebec Medical School, and my school includes my clerkship evaluations, and there are grades on my transcripts.

I guess that if your schools are more liberal on MSPR and transcript, the selection committee will give more importance to your C.V, LOR and personal statement

Our student affairs department did a survey of program directors a while back and the moral of the story is that no one really cares about the MSPR since it's so non standardized. And all English schools are pass fail so I can't see the transcript being important either.

[rmorelan]

I see...I am from Quebec Medical School, and my school includes my clerkship evaluations, and there are grades on my transcripts.

I guess that if your schools are more liberal on MSPR and transcript, the selection committee will give more importance to your C.V, LOR and personal statement

 

the fact that you have grades is a sore point - English directors have pointed that out (as many would love to have grades to help the process). It isn't fair really.

[amichel]

the fact that you have grades is a sore point - English directors have pointed that out (as many would love to have grades to help the process). It isn't fair really.

It's also not fair that my school includes all evaluations on the MSPR, no matter what, while at other schools students choose their best 6 evaluations.

[LittleDaisy]

Which schools are that?

I think that all the Canadian Deans of Medicine should meet together, and discuss the content of MSPRs..So we don't get disadvantaged by some schools including the best clerkship evaluations...or some schools not including any clerkship evaluation comments

It's also not fair that my school includes all evaluations on the MSPR, no matter what, while at other schools students choose their best 6 evaluations.

[rmorelan]

Which schools are that?

I think that all the Canadian Deans of Medicine should meet together, and discuss the content of MSPRs..So we don't get disadvantaged by some schools including the best clerkship evaluations...or some schools not including any clerkship evaluation comments

 

they have tried - it is ongoing. Some schools MSPR are basically a short page saying people passed everything, others are a textbook of detail showing every EC even done at the school. So variable. 

[indefatigable]

the fact that you have grades is a sore point - English directors have pointed that out (as many would love to have grades to help the process). It isn't fair really.

 

As far as I can tell, McGill is the only school that would routinely deal with both anglophone and francophone graduates (usually from University of Montreal).  Looking at the CARMS match data, there's very few francophone<->anglophone exchanges outside of McGill (and a small # in Ottawa).  Grades may help some, but the Quebec Federation of Students is actively trying to remove them for similar reasons pre-clinical have been taken away in a majority of US medical schools - including stress, favouring collaboration and standardization.    

[rmorelan]

As far as I can tell, McGill is the only school that would routinely deal with both anglophone and francophone graduates (usually from University of Montreal).  Looking at the CARMS match data, there's very few francophone<->anglophone exchanges outside of McGill (and a small # in Ottawa).  Grades may help some, but the Quebec Federation of Students is actively trying to remove them for similar reasons pre-clinical have been taken away in a majority of US medical schools - including stress, favouring collaboration and standardization.    

 

Western and Ottawa had enough of them that it came up Not sure about the others. 

 

makes sense that we would all be on the same page at least. No one should be getting an advantage or disadvantage over others automatically. 

[amichel]

Which schools are that?

I think that all the Canadian Deans of Medicine should meet together, and discuss the content of MSPRs..So we don't get disadvantaged by some schools including the best clerkship evaluations...or some schools not including any clerkship evaluation comments

Queens I think? Can't remember, an elective student told me.

[LittleDaisy]

@amichel: I don't think that it is a disadvantage...because even if you apply to a competitive speciality, the program directors would still like to see how you did in other rotations (even though not related to your specialty of interest)

I heard that PDs usually would like to see all the clerkship evaluations if feasible (depends on our schools' MSPR once again)

It's also not fair that my school includes all evaluations on the MSPR, no matter what, while at other schools students choose their best 6 evaluations.

[amichel]

@amichel: I don't think that it is a disadvantage...because even if you apply to a competitive speciality, the program directors would still like to see how you did in other rotations (even though not related to your specialty of interest)

I heard that PDs usually would like to see all the clerkship evaluations if feasible (depends on our schools' MSPR once again)

It's a disadvantage in that all your evals, even the less than stellar ones (and everyone has 1 or 2) get sent to programs.

 

I have one that was totally the opposite of the verbal feedback I was given, and completely inconsistent with the rest of my rotations, and they refused to remove it.

 

It's not terrible or anything but it still bugs me.

[LittleDaisy]

My school include all my mandatory core rotations evaluations in my MSPR.

For my selective in surgery, I had an average evaluation saying that I need to be more confident (I am not aiming for surgery at all, just had to do it lol)

I sent it anyway to all the programs, because I don't want to hide anything...and the selective is in my medical transcript, so I don't want the programs to think that I am withholding information.

I totally feel you. I think that the PDs understand that sometimes, it's just a personality crash with your preceptor. One or two less stellar evals won't hurt that much (IMO)

It's a disadvantage in that all your evals, even the less than stellar ones (and everyone has 1 or 2) get sent to programs.

I have one that was totally the opposite of the verbal feedback I was given, and completely inconsistent with the rest of my rotations, and they refused to remove it.

It's not terrible or anything but it still bugs me.

[F508]

Western and Ottawa had enough of them that it came up Not sure about the others. 

 

makes sense that we would all be on the same page at least. No one should be getting an advantage or disadvantage over others automatically. 

 

Do you know how they dealt with the grades? Were they ignored since anglophone students don't have marks or was it a way to filter out francophone applicants?

[rmorelan]

Do you know how they dealt with the grades? Were they ignored since anglophone students don't have marks or was it a way to filter out francophone applicants?

 

Unfortunately that is a line I cannot cross - since I am involved in processing applications I cannot say what we do with them specifically.

[F508]

hahah well the abstention to respond suggests that they are considered (to what extent, we will not know!)... I guess Ottawa is also a particular situation. Given that it is a "bilingual" city and bilingual program, more francophone students would apply though. So *hypothetically*, it would be more relevant for you to look at marks. Well, can't change what you can't change!

[rmorelan]

hahah well the abstention to respond suggests that they are considered (to what extent, we will not know!)... I guess Ottawa is also a particular situation. Given that it is a "bilingual" city and bilingual program, more francophone students would apply though. So *hypothetically*, it would be more relevant for you to look at marks. Well, can't change what you can't change!

 

you know there is no way to say I cannot tell you without people thinking something like that In reality is it is simply I cannot tell you in the most neutral possible terms. As you can imagine if you say anything about the process it is a great way to get into the kind of trouble you don't want to be in with your program director. Other than just unprofessional and thus wrong there is the small matter that that the program director writes you a letter for fellowships. 

 

ha, to be a doctor is to be a keeper of secrets. 

[F508]

Haha I completely understand and respect why you can't say anything! However that's not going to stop my imagination from filling in the gaps ;P

Always glad to see ethics and professionalism in action

[psychiatry2017]

I got my first interview reject from McMaster Psychiatry today.

As a CMG who did 2 electives in psychiatry, with excellent evaluations...I don't know what to say..I had no red flags, passed all my classes and no bad evaluations...

Does anyone know if they only interview people who did electives at Mac? Could I write to the secretary and appeal their decision?

[technobabble]

1) I know it sucks, and especially since it's the first rejection it's a blow to the psyche. But in my opinion there's no use trying to piece together why you didn't get an interview since, whatever it was, there's not really anything you can do about it now. Most likely it was a Mac idiosyncracy - maybe they only interviewed people who did electives there, or maybe they didn't like your letter, or who knows?

 

Just focus on the fact that a) it's quite common to not get interviews at all the schools you apply to, you should get an interview to your home school and other schools you did electives at, c) you have no red flags, and d) you only have to match to one school! It's early in the game, keep your chin up

 

2) Yes, you absolutely can write to the secretary and ask to be reconsidered. No harm in trying. What I've heard, however, is that people can accept interviews and drop out later, so maybe it would be better to appeal closer to one of the interview dates? 

[psychiatry2017]

Thanks Technobabble, for cheering me up.

Yes I were feeling down this afternoon...because psychiatry is my first choice, and I didn't get a chance to do elective at McMaster...but I loved their program focus in Global Mental Health. I got involved in mental health as a teen, and med school has confirmed my passion for psych

I did psych elective in Montreal and UofToronto, and got excellent evaluations. My school won't allow me to do more electives

Have you known anyone who appealed interview rejection, and then were invited? (or anyone else who wants to chime in).

1) I know it sucks, and especially since it's the first rejection it's a blow to the psyche. But in my opinion there's no use trying to piece together why you didn't get an interview since, whatever it was, there's not really anything you can do about it now. Most likely it was a Mac idiosyncracy - maybe they only interviewed people who did electives there, or maybe they didn't like your letter, or who knows?

 

Just focus on the fact that a) it's quite common to not get interviews at all the schools you apply to, you should get an interview to your home school and other schools you did electives at, c) you have no red flags, and d) you only have to match to one school! It's early in the game, keep your chin up

 

2) Yes, you absolutely can write to the secretary and ask to be reconsidered. No harm in trying. What I've heard, however, is that people can accept interviews and drop out later, so maybe it would be better to appeal closer to one of the interview dates?