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You'd probably have to go up the chain in your university. CMA would have nothing to do with educational based complaints.

 

I would warn you that's what you are proposing is highly risky. Likely, you will get nowhere with higher levels of university admin and make no mistake, the faculty will label you as a trouble maker and punish you for it. It's almost always better to get let it go in these situations.

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Well obviously they can't officially do anything, but they'll label you a troublemaker and a whiner. That'll follow you through the test of the time at school. Staff will hear it and they'll treat you like it on rotations. That probably the biggest issue. If you ever have another issue you want to bring up (bad eval for example that you don't thimk is fair) don't expect them to help you out. In general they will never give you the benefit of the doubt and they'll never ever make any effort beyond the absolute minimum required to help you.

 

I'm not saying don't complain if you really think this is a massive issue, but know that your action will likely have consequences going forward. Those consequences may be worse than your current problem.

 

From their point of view, they only need to supply you all with a individual set of rotations. You'll still get a set of rotations, so why would they care. You could just as easily end up getting a crappy set on the draw from bad luck.

 

If it's that big of a deal for you, can you travel back to the school for the day of the draw (or however they pick them)?

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We are choosing our clinical rotations and I will be away for ~3-4 months. Because of this, my school is preventing me from taking part in the lottery to pick my rotations. I will get all of the student's leftovers that no one wants

 

 

I already contacted the person who is in charge of clinical rotations and she didn't give a sh*t.

 

 

You'd probably have to go up the chain in your university. CMA would have nothing to do with educational based complaints.

 

I would warn you that's what you are proposing is highly risky. Likely, you will get nowhere with higher levels of university admin and make no mistake, the faculty will label you as a trouble maker and punish you for it. It's almost always better to get let it go in these situations.

 

Punish me in what way?

 

Yeah, you're not going to win that fight. Lotteries can be lost and you're still going to get your required rotations, even if they're not the ones you'd prefer.

 

You do have some options that might help, depending on the circumstance. I find it odd that someone would be away for 3-4 months in the middle of the school year and they'd require you to be available in-person for a lottery. When we did our lotteries, it was all online and could be done even if we were halfway across the world. If this situation affects more than just you, I would contact your student representatives to have them advocate on your behalf. Program-level issues are what your student government is there to address.

 

If this is a unique situation, best to do whatever you can with the officials in charge to find a compromise. Could you send a proxy, or otherwise indicate some of your preferences ahead of time? You might not get exactly what you want, but perhaps you could get halfway there. If you do need to escalate above the official directly in charge, it's far better to do so without being antagonistic, when it's clear you've made an effort to be reasonable and have suggested potential alternatives.

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I'm one of those petty people (not that you are) who pick strange hills to die on.

 

I fought a lot of things I thought were "unfair" during med school ranging from talking to the class rep all the way to the dean, to talking to the university ethics committee.

 

Here is what I can tell you:

 

1) It didn't come back to me in a negative way, I matched to an extremely competitive specialty at the same school as my undergrad, I did fine on rotations, and never woke up to a horse's head in my bed. Yeah, I got some dirty looks from some admin staff but at the end of the day you were selected for this job to be an advocate and someone has to be willing to go against the grain every now and then.

 

2) That being said I don't think I ever won a single fight, not one. As others have alluded too they are holding all of the cards and can rationalize things anyway they want and unless it is something particularly egregious no one with the power to do anything is going to lose political points to fight for you. That is just reality. So you don't get to chose your rotations, you still get to complete them, graduate on time, and are not being punished for missing months of school (something i don't understand btw but it doesn't really matter).  Yes, to you and me who know that not getting good electives can hamper our CaRMS chances, we know that this really sucks but someone was going to get those rotations anyway meaning it is possible to match with them, it just might be harder for what you are going for.

 

I have heard of people offering thousands of dollars to switch rotations so that they can get choice electives thinking their CaRMS app totally depends on it. I have seen some people luck out completely and get the most ideal schedule and then match to something easy. None of it is "fair", but none of it is fair in the same sense that some of us lived at home and had our parents cook us food during undergrad so we could study more while others had a job. Or not fair in the sense that some people's parents are in medicine and get firends to let them shadow their kids and get them choice electives.

 

My point is that on the microscopic level it is never "fair". It is only when you zoom out and see the big picture that it all starts to look "even", and that is what people care about, not your own personal struggles but that the system is approximately fair. No one else on this planet (besides maybe your parents and your friend who will always take your side) cares if you don't get a chance to chose your electives, that is your cross to bear. Just like the person in your class has to bear an illness while a few more have children or are making some. At the end of teh day the school will provide you with a certain number of electives before CaRMS and that is what they have established is the bear minimum.

 

Is this fair to you? no not really

Is it a hill you should die on? no, probably not

Why? because as a wise man (or a character in a movie or video game, can't really remember) once said "only fight if you think you can win", 

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The lottery is online, but they aren't letting me participate. Thanks ralk, I'll try to suggest other potential alternatives.

 

That's very strange. How can they prevent you from participating online? I'm clearly missing something in the story here... I'd definitely get in touch with your student reps. Unless there's something to the story you haven't shared, this is something you should be able to get some backing with from your representatives.

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I took part in the lottery last year and completed some of my rotations. This year, in June, I left to do a one year MPH. Now that I want to take part in the lottery again to fill the rest of my rotations, my school is saying no. They will let everyone else pick, and then come next year, I will pick from whatever is left.

Ah, ok. That's a bit of a different situation. Taking a non-standard path through medical school leaves you at the mercy of school policies and administrative decisions. Arranging a partial schedule may be more tricky for the school than a standard full schedule, particularly when considering clinical training capacity.

 

Unless you were given some sort of indication that you'd be able to enter the lottery when you left to do your Master's, I'm not sure you'll have much to stand on in making your case. If you haven't already, try to figure out why your request has been refused and see if you can find some room for compromise. My guess though is in order to keep their numbers even for the incoming class, they have to hold you out of the lottery, which doesn't give much wiggle room.

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Is there a reason the school gave for you to pick from the leftovers? Could it be that you already got the chance to pick from the rotations pool like everyone else and now that you're in the class of 2018 as an 'extra', you would be taking spots away from that class so they're making you pick after everyone else gets their turn?

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My faculty allows students who take a year off to enter the elective lottery as the regular stream.

But elective policy is faculty dependent, if your vice-dean of dean of medicine can't help you further. There is no point of complaining to the third party or even to the CMA.

Best of luck.

Numbers are always changing year after year with people dropping out after first/second year and people having to redo a year. I sent them an e-mail asking them why my request has been refused. I hope to hear from them soon. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

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My faculty allows students who take a year off to enter the elective lottery as the regular stream.

But elective policy is faculty dependent, if your vice-dean of dean of medicine can't help you further. There is no point of complaining to the third party or even to the CMA.

Best of luck.

 

Perhaps it is because OP already participated in the lottery before they took their year off?

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Numbers are always changing year after year with people dropping out after first/second year and people having to redo a year. I sent them an e-mail asking them why my request has been refused. I hope to hear from them soon. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

True, but those people usually end up doing full years which, strange as it might sound, are often easier to organize. I know people who have needed modified schedules cause a lot of extra work for the administration and the students themselves tend to have to do a lot more legwork to get things set up. In any case, hope you get an answer soon.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 6 months later...

I took part in the lottery last year and completed some of my rotations. This year, in June, I left to do a one year MPH. Now that I want to take part in the lottery again to fill the rest of my rotations, my school is saying no. They will let everyone else pick, and then come next year, I will pick from whatever is left.

 

I'm curious - what reason(s) did you give to your faculty to grant you permission to pursue an MPH in the MIDDLE of rotations? A few colleagues of mine tried to do the same, but my faculty would not grant it.

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This is probably true - I mean they already made an exception for you to even do the MPH and thus becoming a special case. It is very tricky to come from that position and not have some form of complications down the line. 

 

Ah, ok. That's a bit of a different situation. Taking a non-standard path through medical school leaves you at the mercy of school policies and administrative decisions. Arranging a partial schedule may be more tricky for the school than a standard full schedule, particularly when considering clinical training capacity.

Unless you were given some sort of indication that you'd be able to enter the lottery when you left to do your Master's, I'm not sure you'll have much to stand on in making your case. If you haven't already, try to figure out why your request has been refused and see if you can find some room for compromise. My guess though is in order to keep their numbers even for the incoming class, they have to hold you out of the lottery, which doesn't give much wiggle room.

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