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Neurology Salary?


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#1 scaredofthedark

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 04:39 PM

Hi guys,

 

I was told a couple weeks ago that in Ontario, the mean gross billings for neurologists is actually lower than that of family doctors.

 

 I was quite surprised by this, and since I'm very interested in neurology as a profession I just wanted to see if I could get some clarification about how much they actually make.

 

Thanks so much,

scared



#2 ralk

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 05:52 PM

Hi guys,

 

I was told a couple weeks ago that in Ontario, the mean gross billings for neurologists is actually lower than that of family doctors.

 

 I was quite surprised by this, and since I'm very interested in neurology as a profession I just wanted to see if I could get some clarification about how much they actually make.

 

Thanks so much,

scared

 

The CMA profiles is a good place to start - here's Neurology's. Overall a Neurologist's income is similar if not better than the typical FM doc. 


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#3 rmorelan

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 06:45 PM

I am not an neurologist - but the overhead is quite a bit less I thought as well(?)

 

no doubt neurologist earn a lower amount compared to other similar specialties. I have been told some reasons why that is the case but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me on a system's level. 


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#4 Edict

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 08:22 PM

I am not an neurologist - but the overhead is quite a bit less I thought as well(?)

 

no doubt neurologist earn a lower amount compared to other similar specialties. I have been told some reasons why that is the case but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me on a system's level. 

 

If neurologists could actually treat stuff maybe their incomes would improve...  ;)


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#5 rmorelan

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 08:26 PM

If neurologists could actually treat stuff maybe their incomes would improve...  ;)

 

(ooooooooooooooo......)

 

but in seriousness that is exactly the problem - the government doesn't like to pay for things that don't somehow END the problem or lead to it ending. Chronic management of things is not their style. Not logical in all cases, not logical at all.  


Our knowledge has made us cynical.
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We think too much and feel too little.
More than machinery we need humanity.
More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness.
Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost.
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#6 Blinkbest

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 09:36 PM

(ooooooooooooooo......)
 
but in seriousness that is exactly the problem - the government doesn't like to pay for things that don't somehow END the problem or lead to it ending. Chronic management of things is not their style. Not logical in all cases, not logical at all.


Instead of putting more and more money into specialized treatment, they would reach their goal of "ending problems" by focusing on prevention and firts line treatment aka making fm more attracting for med students!
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#7 Let'sGo1990

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 04:30 AM

The pay is not great for general outpatient Neurology. That is, in large part due to the length of the neuro physical exam and the patient population they deal with. Often times, those patients are presenting with issues that cannot be addressed in 10 minutes. On top of that, they have loads of elderly patients, who tend to have social issues such as failure to cope, caregiver fatigue, dementia, etc. going on. 

 

That said, certain sub specialties and procedures within Neurology can pay decently from what I hear. 

 

Botox for dystonias, Parkinsons patients, and headaches, EMGs, NCS, neurocritical care,  and sleep medicine all pay well. Beware, however, that you may find it difficult to establish the required patient population to appreciably boost your income via botox. Unfortunately, I don't believe that OHIP covers botox injections for headaches. There is a private market for this however. The neurocritical care and sleep medicine job markets are saturated. Not sure about EMG/NCS.  

 

In the states, there are Neurologists who practice interventional pain, although that is dominated by Anaesthesia in Canada. I don't imagine it would be impossible to land a fellowship for that in Canada.

 

Interventional neuroradiology is ~20-25% completed by Neurologists in the states. The remaining 70-75% of the field is split between Neurosurgery and Radiology, with Neurosurgery taking the larger portion of that pie. That, too, pays quite well. I think there are a couple of Neurologists practicing this in Canada now. 

 

That said, these will all require 2 year fellowships AFAIK. There are better paths to money out there. 



#8 rmorelan

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:08 AM

The pay is not great for general outpatient Neurology. That is, in large part due to the length of the neuro physical exam and the patient population they deal with. Often times, those patients are presenting with issues that cannot be addressed in 10 minutes. On top of that, they have loads of elderly patients, who tend to have social issues such as failure to cope, caregiver fatigue, dementia, etc. going on. 

 

That said, certain sub specialties and procedures within Neurology can pay decently from what I hear. 

 

Botox for dystonias, Parkinsons patients, and headaches, EMGs, NCS, neurocritical care,  and sleep medicine all pay well. Beware, however, that you may find it difficult to establish the required patient population to appreciably boost your income via botox. Unfortunately, I don't believe that OHIP covers botox injections for headaches. There is a private market for this however. The neurocritical care and sleep medicine job markets are saturated. Not sure about EMG/NCS.  

 

In the states, there are Neurologists who practice interventional pain, although that is dominated by Anaesthesia in Canada. I don't imagine it would be impossible to land a fellowship for that in Canada.

 

Interventional neuroradiology is ~20-25% completed by Neurologists in the states. The remaining 70-75% of the field is split between Neurosurgery and Radiology, with Neurosurgery taking the larger portion of that pie. That, too, pays quite well. I think there are a couple of Neurologists practicing this in Canada now. 

 

That said, these will all require 2 year fellowships AFAIK. There are better paths to money out there. 

 

there are 2 neurologist practicing neurointerventional in Canada last time I looked. Not very popular in canada as it doesn't pay particularly well and of course the hours are terrible. Still interesting work :) 

 

In Canada at least most of that is still done by radiologists. 


Our knowledge has made us cynical.
Our cleverness, hard and unkind.
We think too much and feel too little.
More than machinery we need humanity.
More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness.
Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost.
-
Schulich Medicine 2013, PGY4 - Ottawa for Radiology

 

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#9 NLengr

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:42 PM

The pay is not great for general outpatient Neurology. That is, in large part due to the length of the neuro physical exam and the patient population they deal with. Often times, those patients are presenting with issues that cannot be addressed in 10 minutes. On top of that, they have loads of elderly patients, who tend to have social issues such as failure to cope, caregiver fatigue, dementia, etc. going on.

That said, certain sub specialties and procedures within Neurology can pay decently from what I hear.

Botox for dystonias, Parkinsons patients, and headaches, EMGs, NCS, neurocritical care, and sleep medicine all pay well. Beware, however, that you may find it difficult to establish the required patient population to appreciably boost your income via botox. Unfortunately, I don't believe that OHIP covers botox injections for headaches. There is a private market for this however. The neurocritical care and sleep medicine job markets are saturated. Not sure about EMG/NCS.

In the states, there are Neurologists who practice interventional pain, although that is dominated by Anaesthesia in Canada. I don't imagine it would be impossible to land a fellowship for that in Canada.

Interventional neuroradiology is ~20-25% completed by Neurologists in the states. The remaining 70-75% of the field is split between Neurosurgery and Radiology, with Neurosurgery taking the larger portion of that pie. That, too, pays quite well. I think there are a couple of Neurologists practicing this in Canada now.

That said, these will all require 2 year fellowships AFAIK. There are better paths to money out there.


Neurosurg is smart. They're avoiding the mistakes Cardiac Surgery made.

#10 rmorelan

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:31 PM

Neurosurg is smart. They're avoiding the mistakes Cardiac Surgery made.

 

in fairness it is easier to be smart when you have Cardiac Surgery as a shining example of what happens when you don't be proactive about things. 


Our knowledge has made us cynical.
Our cleverness, hard and unkind.
We think too much and feel too little.
More than machinery we need humanity.
More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness.
Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost.
-
Schulich Medicine 2013, PGY4 - Ottawa for Radiology

 

yoda.jpg





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