Too Many Learners In Toronto?

[justwannabeadoc]

I've heard from more than a few people now that despite what one might think, it's very difficult to get clinical opportunities in Toronto because of the large number of learners there (med students, residents, and fellows). Can any current students or others with insight please comment? Would coming to Toronto provide me just as many opportunities for patient interactions as would say Mac, Ottawa, or Queens? If not, then what's particularly attractive about Toronto, other than living in the city and greater opportunities for research. Thank you.

[applepie123]

Go to MAM! 

[justwannabeadoc]

bump

[4Tetra]

Don't know much. But if you want an answer I can tell you this. Yes Toronto has a massive class, but you have to realize for such a large metropolitan city, it's rare that you find only one university with one medical school. U of T is affiliated with a ton of research institutes and hospitals all over the GTA. So even though it may seem it's difficult to find clinical opportunities with "so many learners", there's definitely a lot out there for you to explore. Also, if you're worried about clinical exposure early on, I know Toronto has implemented the new Foundations program which includes ICE? It gives you a bit of early clinical exposure right out of first year I think. U of T is slowly starting to stray away from the lecture heavy curriculum and more towards what Ottawa's got going on now. Hope this helps a bit 

[ArchEnemy]

Having spent the last 4 years at U of T and meeting medical students from other schools during electives, I can confidently say that I do not feel short changed in terms of clinical opportunities.

 

In my clerkship year, I delivered more than 10 babies (i.e. through the 4 stages of labour), neonatal resuscitation, scrubbed in on surgical cases (cameraman for laproscopic, glorified retractor for open, closing sutures), performed 3-4 consults/call and handled floor issues overnight while on team medicine, inserted a chest tube for a pneumothorax in ED, and aspirated a knee on Rheum, spun urine on Nephro, performing CPR on code team, casted fractures and sutured lacerations in ED, punch biopsied pigmented lesions... the list goes on and on...

 

TLDR: Don't worry, there is plenty of work to go around, even in a big school like Toronto.

[justwannabeadoc]

Wow that sounds amazing, thanks for your reply

[Galaxsci]

And just from a first year's perspective, in the new curriculum we see patients all the time. I saw my first real patient (with a partner) in October and have been seeing patients individually to take a history and physical every week since ~December.

 

Edit: These are inpatients in the hospital that I'm seeing, not patients looking to be admitted (though most people who shadow emerg get the chance to take a few histories from patients coming in).

[ryu]

I echo the comments above- as a 4th year, I can say that there are more than enough clinical opportunities from the start. The large number of learners is matched with an even larger wealth of opportunities/resources such as tertiary hospitals, mentors, teachers, research, equipment etc. Small group sessions are capped at a certain number of students so each still gets great exposure. Out in the community, you'll likely be front line for most things. Bottom line, you will get additional experiences you want as long as you're active about them.

[robclem21]

Also, if you want all of the research experiences and other benefits that UofT has to offer and this is still a concern, consider MAM. All of your clinical experience is in Mississauga where there are few fellows and residents. The opportunities are even greater than what the downtown students are exposed to. I first assisted on a minor surgery, scrubbed into several other surgeries, performed newborn exams and got to watch many deliveries all as a first year student (in addition to the normal patient interactions we get through our curriculum).