A Few Questions...

[monkeyman]

Hi All, 

 

Just have a few things would like to get your thoughts on.  

 

I'll give a quick background to put things into context. I'm in my mid 30s and will be applying to U of C this upcoming cycle.  I'm a Tx Coordinator/ICU RN/clinical RN instructor with degrees in mol. bio and nursing. Recently (fall 2015) I've returned to school full-time to augment my GPA and will be applying using the 10 year exclusion rule.  I'll have to retake the new MCAT this summer. 

 

1) I was Dx'd with adult ADHD at 34 years of age.  Since getting treatment life has gotten much much easier.  I've never had a semester (over 2 degrees) where I've achieved > 3.74 prior to treatment. Post treatment I've consistently been getting >3.9's with similar and arguably more challenging course loads (5 senior undergrad/grad science courses per term).  I am planning on volunteering with the Edmonton ADHD society as I want others to experience the great benefits of getting help. My question is: Although this has had a big impact on my life, and getting help/treatment has made everything better, should I discuss it in my application? I view the top 10's as significant things in your life that have shaped you as a person and applicant.  However, I am not sure how this would be viewed given the pervasive, albeit improving, stigma against mental illness stuff.  Would I get red-flagged for having ADHD?

 

2) Does anyone have any tips for how to list verifiers for super old work experience. A lot of the places I've worked at in my younger days haven't existed for years!  Maybe revenue Canada would have a record of this?

 

3) Is it common to group activities together in the top 10? I have really varied work/extracurricular/volunteering experiences before finishing up my nursing degree and starting in healthcare jobs. I have a wide range of interests and these reflect that. I was going to put these together in a misc. work/volunteering experience section or something like that. Same thing with research experience. I'm not sure if this is a common practice or what others recommend. 

 

This is my effectively my first time applying in with the new U of C MD admissions system. I know the top 10 is integral to the application, so would like some advice. 

 

Thanks in advance!!

[MountainAmoeba]

First, have you written the MCAT? I like you am a nurse, and it took me 8 months to prep because I had to teach myself most of the material. Your prior degrees will undoubtedly make it easier. If you haven't written it, start studying now, and take the test before the last permitted date (the application manual will have this). If you have, then disregard that!

 

For your ADHD. It will not get you red flagged, but each file is reviewed by four file reviewers, any one of which could have bias and not see this favorably. However, I think that's probably unlikely, and the fact that you sought out help, and are improving, demonstrates commitment to overcoming adversity. I would personally take the "risk" and include it.

 

For verifiers you may use yourself where other options aren't available (do your best though to find appropriate verifiers). See what documentation you might have to support your claims in case they want some type of "proof". It shouldn't be an issue.

 

The top ten is hard. I wrote mine out about 20 times (revisions). I used the 6 non-academic criteria they score you on, and comparied what I wrote to them. I found sometimes I would write something out that was very meaningful, but didn't communicate an evolution of my personhood that was consistent with what they were trying to assess you on. The style is quite hard to do well with. 1000 characters is just enough to hang your self with haha. But almost not enough to get your point across. Sentences that don't communicate an idea should likely not be included. The impact section is just exactly that. This isn't a resume, don't list achievements, demonstrate growth. Be really careful not to inflate your participaron. Just be reflective, and honest.

 

I did lump "like" things together, because what I learned from say, two or three activities was the same thing. So for example committee work that I do, I lumped together. Be aware that the file reviewers include physicians and community members. Speak simply, but thoughtfully, don't risk alienating your audience. Advice I was given, is that community members might not know certain terminology, and the physicians will want the communication to be very clear, almost "to the point" (which works well with the limited space).

 

Lastly, have another person read it. Check to see if anything can be misinterpreted. I had two different peope read it, and they both pointed out things that had extra meaning, that could have been interpreted quite poorly.

[monkeyman]

Thanks for the response MA.  What areas do you work in may I ask?

 

I've already booked an MCAT date in mid August and it should be enough time for a score release.  I've taken the MCAT before (back in pre-historic times ). Didn't feel like I had enough time to prep last time as I was working full time and taking a class.  I prepped hard for like 15-20 hours a week for around 2-3 months.  Mostly did practice questions.  I did okay overall (34S), but bombed the verbal (only got a 9).  I'm not really worried about the science stuff as its pretty intuitive for me and like you said my course work will help prep me. CARS scares the crap out of me though.  Gonna attempt to start to study after finals.  How much time were you spending per week on prepping?  I think the old test was much easier than the new one.  Did you find it tough to prep with work, life, etc?  I'm worried about having enough prep time over the summer. We are expecting our first child, plus I'll have to work, will be involved with a few research project, other ECs... not looking forward to it!  

 

As a fellow murse did you find it relatively easy to incorporate those 6 non-academic criteria into your top 10s? I mean advocacy, communication, collaboration, are pretty easy to do given what we do don't you think? The way you describe it, writing a good top 10 seems challenging and intimidating!!  Concise, effective writing that packs a punch is a skill and an art.

 

Do you have any insights on whether having relevant healthcare experience actually makes a difference in the admissions committee's eyes? I would think it would depend on how you "sell" the impact of the experience in your top 10's maybe?   

 

Again, thanks for your thoughts! I really appreciate it!

[propofolsquad]

I'm also an RN (ER/ICU) and I applied last cycle, rejected pre interview. I found the new MCAT to be challenging with my educational background (just that good old BScN with chem 101 as one of my electives) and I self studied for a year while doing full time 12s and then took a course to get an honestly mediocre score. To me writing the top 10 even with that health care experience was actually tough as well. I did try to hit all the assessment criteria but I think I wasn't specific enough in what I wrote. The character limit makes it challenging so you really do have to fit a lot of meaning into your entries. Nursing activities are broad, cover a lot of categories, but sometimes can be hard to quantify so my advice is to give very specific examples. As for your ADHD I think that shows personal growth and overcoming adversity as well. That stigma around mental health is real, but as a person with lived experience with mental health your reviewers may just think that your experiences give you a perspective that would be helpful in your career as a physician. If you're comfortable sharing, include it! You never know, that might just be what sets you apart in a good way!

[propofolsquad]

For CARS I got a 129 and I worked my way through the old EK VR book skipping the science passages, I tried to do at least one a day and at least twice a week did as many passages as I could fit into the time limit. Once I had my timing down I moved to "testing solutions" material to practice with and then finally the AAMC material when I was scoring above 127 everywhere else and my timing was what I wanted it to be.

[MountainAmoeba]

For the top ten it was definitely easy in terms of checking items off of the list. What is perhaps more difficult is proving it. For example as a transplant co-ordinator you are involved in very difficult conversations that require excellence in communication, the onus is on you to prove that you actually have that skill, and that that particular role helped you get it. Other wise you're just a person having hard conversations, maybe poorly. Does that make sense?

 

For CARS, I don't know, that was the only section I knew I would do well on, but more so because that is how I think. I saved it for last, and was very particular in my practice. I practiced every passage like it was test day. I would read the passage out loud (under my breath), and analyze each sentence as I went, comparing it to the passage as a whole. Also remember that what you know in CARS means nothing. So forget it all. Only what is in the passage is relevant to the question, not a factoid that you might know that distracts you. I used Kaplan's book set, they were hit and miss. Their CARS strategy is a waste of time. haha

 

I don't think having previous health care experience matters to the admissions committee  (but who knows). From what I understand the reason they use the method they do is to make sure people have equal opportunity to get in, no matter what their background. I think nursing prepares you well for the application, but again, it really is up to you and what you put down. Being a nurse could burn you if you didn't reflect on it meaningfully, as much as it could help you. 

[monkeyman]

Thanks for the response guys. Good to know that I'm not the only murse applying!  

 

I'm highly jealous of your guys CARS...I'll be super relieved if I can somehow score >127, whereas if I get anything less than 129-130 on the sciences I'll be disappointed.  I applaud you guys for having the persistence and mental discipline to study for that long after long shifts. I don't think I could do it.   I have no problem studying stuff I'm interested in. However, I really didn't find the MCAT science material particularly stimulating (translation: most of it is boring and therefore tough to study for!). 

 

I think the modest character limit for the top 10s makes it especially difficult.  I think multiple drafts and revisions and having others check it over may be the best approach to take. I'm sure others struggle with the top 10s, and although I have yet to do a search, I've heard there's lots of good material on the forums.  I'm still pretty uncertain about what to do about the ADHD situation, but I'll sleep on it. I just don't want to be permanently red-flagged haha!  I mean would you want a doc who had ADHD taking care of someone you loved?   

 

Also, what were your guys' ECs like? I have some pretty diverse stuff in the remote past but don't have a lot of recent stuff other than some strength sports stuff as I'm pretty swamped with work, classes, research projects, etc. I will be starting some volunteering this summer.  I feel totally outclassed by the younger candidates that work super hard with all their crazy ECs on top of full time classes to help them get in.  

 

Again thanks for your thoughts!

[propofolsquad]

I would take a hard working doc with ADHD any day! Don't sell yourself short. you're already a nurse so just think of how many patients and families you've cared for in the ICU. I guarantee they just see a great nurse, ADHD and all. Be confident. ????

 

I feel very outclassed as well! I mean I like to blame some of my EC shortcomings on nursing hours because the full time grind is brutal but the fact is everyone is working REALLY hard, So it's keep up or be left behind (at least that's how it feels sometimes) I've been volunteering with a crisis line for a year now, 4h a week, and that comes with some extra mental health/crisis intervention training. I was president of a student group and still sit on the board of that group as an alumna, we do philanthropy work each year. But that's really all my current things. I feel like I lack most in the scholarship category, I didn't have the opportunity to do research as an undergrad and I would have loved to. The only thing Ive got going for me is continuity, I've been doing service work and education in the mental health field since high school, then nursing conferences, the crisis line and a scholarship to visit a US residential addictions facility. Definitely seems to pale in comparison to the super humans coming out of their undergrad though! I don't know if that helped, but I hope it did ???? good luck yo!

[monkeyman]

Thanks for the vote of confidence PS!  I honestly think a lot of healthcare workers in higher acuity areas have ADHD but keep it under wraps. Certain areas just attract certain personality types.  I'm happier than a pig in mud dealing with a super unstable pt in multiorgan failure or during an emergent ECMO cannulation... I suppose that's a horrible thing to say given how bad it is for the patient, but if I was dying I'd rather have someone who's excited and revels in those critical situations vs. someone who's nervous/scared/unsure, etc. Still, I just worry about the stigma about revealing a mental health dx to the admissions committee. 

 

Definitely tough to get into a lot of ECs when you're working full time... I've worked a bit of ER, and was actually getting leaner from all the walking during those 12 hours shifts!  They're very tiring for sure, especially in the RAZ areas, but at least you get to help a lot of people. I think Dr. Walker had mentioned they like to see continuity in activities, and it sounds like you have a lot of that.  Pretty cool experiences there with visiting residential addiction facilities.  I'm going to be starting volunteering for an ADHD association and also St. Johns ambulance over the summer, and I have a powerlifting meet.  Between those, working 2 different jobs, 2, maybe 3 research projects and MCAT studying and a new baby, I think that'll be enough! Really doesn't feel like enough compared to the other posters on here so, don't worry, you're not the only one to feel outclassed! 

 

One of the things I can suggest for scholarship stuff is maybe get into research now? Being a healthcare professional puts you in a pretty unique position...for example, my research project this year involved developing a procedure for easy and quick vascular cannulation for ex vivo perfusion/"flushing" of freshly explanted human organs during transplant surgeries to get "fresh" organ-specific lymphocytes.  Did this in the OR fully scrubbed and sterile.  Most undergrads don't have OR access for example, or access to other restricted areas in the hospital like cath lab or other endovascular/endoscopy suites...maybe you'd have an in with one of these areas?  There are lots of research opportunities in bigger universities, just keep looking!  Another thing that I consider "scholarship" would be teaching as a clinical instructor. I'm not sure where you work, but most universities w/ nursing programs are desperate for good clinical instructors. I usually do a 0.5 FTE (2 days a week + a few weeks for for the exam period/reading break, etc.) and its a great, very rewarding experience.  Have you thought about being a clinical instructor? 

 

Thanks again for your input and good luck to you as well!

[propofolsquad]

A new baby too?! Congrats!! That's So scary and wonderful!

That's definitely something to think about! Did you find working as a clinical instructor that you lost skills/felt out of the loop spending that much time away from the ICU? THAT would be my only concern

[monkeyman]

Thanks!  I think scary and wonderful is a pretty apt description!  I`m scared but excited. 

 

I worked full time for about 3.5 years after graduating (almost all in ICU).  I went casual (basically self employed) after that and have been casual for 5 years now. This way I can choose when, and where I want to work and also for how long.  Its extremely flexible and I can`t say enough good things about being a casual employee!  Its the only reason I could go back to school full time and still pay mortgage, bills, etc.  I would strongly recommend the casual gig to any RN who wants work variety and flexibility!  If you have your advanced certifications (NMBA, countershock/ACLS, MET/RRT, EVD, CRRT, PA cath, maybe even IABP, ECMO/VAD, IHD) you may want to consider being casual.  Your skill set is quite valuable and there`s never really a shortage of work.  In addition, you can work in many different areas and tailor your own schedule if you`re starting to get really busy with extracurricular stuff. Haha, sorry I don`t mean to offer unsolicited advice, but I`m just letting you know what has worked well for me!  

 

My contract as an instructor was only a 0.5 FTE (so 2 days a wk).  I was co-teaching with another instructor. I was doing 2-3 days a week in tx and then 1, sometimes 2 days in ICU.  It was a really fun combo of experiences because tx is like a office/clinic job, ICU is more acute, and then teaching was something different! Was running a site maintenance business on top of that too... it was a bit much at times. I guess that`s just my ADHD manifesting itself as a need for constant variable stimulation!  

 

Almost all of my critical care experience is in a big general med/surg ICUs/Burns ICU. I`ve done a bit in CVICU as well and a few shifts here and there in other smaller ICUs.   Not sure how much experience you have in the critical care, but for me its a bit like riding a bike!  I`ve done it for a long time so even after a few months of no shifts, its pretty straight forward. Only difference is that you`re slower doing stuff, but still know what to do. For example: it takes me 20-30% longer to set up a CRRT machine or set up/`shoot numbers` if you have a pt with a PA cath (which is extremely rare nowadays).  Sometime protocols changed, etc but you can just ask your co-workers about these if you`re unsure.  

 

The clinical instructor gig is nice because like the students you get reading break and exam breaks off.  I`d highly recommend a part time teaching position, as I wouldn`t want to do it full time.  I`ve always found its much much easier to work a lot when you`re in many different areas. It really keeps me fresh!