1 Week Di Elective In Alberta To Show Interest For Im?

[Bluberblubo]

Hi there, 

 

I really need some advice, because I'm really torn between making two decisions. 

I want to match to internal medicine and I'm trying to figure out how to go about booking my electives. 

My two options now are:

6 weeks CTU toronto

2 weeks hematology mcmaster

2 weeks any specialty at calgary/alberta

Carms App

4 weeks of random specialties at places I haven't been to yet pre-carms

 

OR

 

6 weeks CTU/medconsults toronto

1 week radiology alberta

2 weeks hematology mcmaster

2 weeks any specialty/CTU at ontario schools

Carms App

4 weeks of random specialties at places I haven't been to yet pre-carms

 

So my decision essentially boils down to this:

Will 1 week radiology elective in alberta be enough to show that I am interested in matching out west (pro this will give me the opportunity to do a 2 week elective in another ontario school)

OR 

will it not make a difference and I should just drop it and do a 2 week elective at alberta/calgary (pro better chance out west, con less ontario school exploration)

 

Thank you so much for your help in advance!

[thestar10]

The 6 week Toronto elective arguably hurts you more for OOP than the other choices. From your electives, its clear you are ranking Toronto GIM first, which makes you less attractive to all other programs 

[Bambi]

Only do the 1 week radiology alberta if this is a field of potential interest. I wouldn't do it just to demonstrate your potential mobility/readiness to move out West. I did a 2 week elective in a surgical field where I had only done 1 week when the CaRMS application deadline set in and I got my LOR on time (and am now doing my residency in this field). Do either 1 week or 2 week elctive out West (either is enough in my view) provided you are interested in that particular field and things being equal, you will apply for residency in that field out West (otherwise in my view  there is no point - as you want face time where you will be applying).

[ameltingbanana]

I feel like 6 weeks is too much time at one centre (unless this is your core rotation you're referring to). I would do a 2 week CTU elective at either UCal/Alberta, and explore more ON schools through splitting up the Toronto weeks.

[Bluberblubo]

Hey, 

Thank you so much for your responses. 

To clarify, these are not my core rotations, they are my electives. I agree, 6 weeks does seem a bit much when I think about it. I have sent off a bunch of applications for calgary and alberta and will just sit tight until they get back to me. 

Ideally, I would like to match to Toronto GIM, but I'm open to going across ontario and OOP. 

I will cancel the 1-week radiology elective and split up one of the 3 week toronto electives to 2x2 weeks somewhere else and skip the 1 week break I was thinking of doing to write the Carms app. I'll just prep some more now, so I don't have to worry too much about the application when the time comes

[collegedude22]

The problem with Toronto is there is very much no guarantee you will get an interview EVEN IF you rock those 6 weeks, get a glowing letter, are told by multiple faculty you will match there, get interviews almost everywhere else you applied using the letter you got from Toronto. This happened to me.

 

Internal med interviews are definitely NOT guaranteed. I would plan electives assuming you won't get an interview at Toronto. Hopefully you do! But play it safe and don't use up more than 3 weeks at any one centre.

[LittleDaisy]

To be honest, I think that it is very difficult to get a Toronto IM interview if you never set your foot there. The best IM electives would be CTU, but if you can't get CTU, I would suggest high-yield IM subspecialties: ID, cardio, resp, GIM consults, etc, or tailor up to your interest.

Almost everyone whom I met at Toronto IM interviews, did an elective there (2-3 weeks). The selection criteria is pretty vague, but getting a LOR from a faculty member bumps you up for sure!

 

I used my Toronto IM LOR everywhere in Ontario, but only managed to get Toronto IM interview. CaRMS is a strange game. Once again, I wasn't 100% committed to IM, and only did 2 IM electives inherently related to primary care. So CaRMS is a lottery ticket, a bit of luck!

 

I do think that as IM is getting more popular, although 97% CMGs got IM as first-choice discipline (2017 CaRMS stats), which means that you should match to IM as a motivated CMG, but perhaps NOT your first CHOICE LOCATION. Doing electives around the country will help you to obtain more IM interviews certainly. 

 

6 weeks of CTU at UofT would be a bit too much, you can get a great LOR after 3 weeks! 

 

The problem with Toronto is there is very much no guarantee you will get an interview EVEN IF you rock those 6 weeks, get a glowing letter, are told by multiple faculty you will match there, get interviews almost everywhere else you applied using the letter you got from Toronto. This happened to me.

Internal med interviews are definitely NOT guaranteed. I would plan electives assuming you won't get an interview at Toronto. Hopefully you do! But play it safe and don't use up more than 3 weeks at any one centre.

[Bluberblubo]

Thank you for your responses!

 

Some things that I should clarify, I am a student at Toronto, so I figured it'd make sense to do 2 electives at my home school and the rest elsewhere. I also already have 1 LOR from a "well known" attending at Toronto.

 

Right now, this is my elective schedule:

3 weeks CTU toronto

1 week radiology alberta (thinking of changing this to 4 weeks CTU toronto or 3 weeks at mac. Thoughts?)

2 weeks heme mac

1 week free

2 weeks CTU alberta (this is confirmed, but I just emailed the admin asking if the above week is free so I can do 3 weeks CTU)

3 weeks med consult toronto. (carms due in last week and refs the week after)

3 weeks empty (will try to book either ottawa, queens, western)

 

 

6 weeks of CTU at UofT would be a bit too much, you can get a great LOR after 3 weeks! 

 

I agree with that, my only worry is that my CTU is at the beginning of electives and I'll have not done any IM for at least 6 months, so might not be at my best. By the time I get to my med consults elective, I'll be really prepped and will hopefully impress. Alternatively, I was thinking of adding an extra week of CTU to toronto instead of the radiology one and scrapping the med consults for a western/queens/ottawa elective. Anyone have recommendations on that?

 

It kinda sucks how the schedule turned out with random 1 week breaks, but hard to change that now 

 

The problem with Toronto is there is very much no guarantee you will get an interview EVEN IF you rock those 6 weeks, get a glowing letter, are told by multiple faculty you will match there, get interviews almost everywhere else you applied using the letter you got from Toronto. This happened to me. 

 

Damn, that must've been tough   I heard that from a bunch of people that it's never guaranteed even if you do amazing. I also heard about people who got in with just 3 weeks in Toronto, so it definitely is on my mind that 3 weeks might be excessive. 

 

Thank you everyone for all your advice! Really appreciate it!

[LittleDaisy]

I really think that you will shine during your CTU elective, if you already did your CORE CTU rotation 6 months ago! I did my 1 IM elective before my core CTU rotation, and 1 right after; and I got great evaluations! Internists are pretty easy to work with, the most important thing they care about is your medical knowledge, and how you work with other team members!  The working hours at CTU are from 8-5, so you will have a lot of time to read up on your patients' diseases at home. I don't think that you will be required to do calls as an elective student...

 

As you are from UofT, you already know quite a few attendings nevertheless, and how it works! I don't think that you need to do 2 IM electives at your home school (my personal advice). It might be a turn off for other schools.. Perhaps try to book CTU electives, or IM electives at other Ontario schools before CaRMS?? If you already have 1 LOR from a UofT faculty member, you better have the other 2 LORs from outside Toronto. So the IM selection committees at other schools see that you are well-liked everywhere else, beside your home school!

 

For your 3 week med consult at UofT, since the LORs are due the week after, it might be too tight to ask for a LOR. Staff physicians have so many to do, besides revising consults!   You might be lucky to find a super keen, super motivated to write you a LOR within 1 week, who knows?

 

I personally did 3 week subspecialty elective at UofT, and had no problem getting LORs despite adapting to the EPR, and getting lost the first week lol. You will be fine!

[sr555]

I don't think that you will be required to do calls as an elective student...

 

While you're generally not required to do CTU call, and some sites won't even allow elective students to take overnight call (they want to give learning priority to their students; call rooms are scarce, etc.), I strongly suggest you explore the possibility of doing a couple of "evening call" shifts (stay until 11 PM and do 1 or 2 early consults and admit the patients to your own team), so you have the chance to present consults to your staff and let them see you care for a patient from admission to discharge. Ask the site's education coordinator and your preceptor about this as early as possible. Make sure you get all the required permissions first.

[ACHQ]

Speaking from experience (both as a UofT IM resident and former student), your elective schedule is similar to many people who apply/interview/match to internal medicine from UofT.

 

I had 5 weeks of medicine electives at UofT (3 weeks CTU and 2 weeks of a subspecialty). I had a total of 7 weeks at UofT out of 12 weeks of electives, but 2 weeks were in community ER AFTER CaRMS was due.

 

Lately this strategy has been risky because Internal Medicine is more competitive the last 2 years and so people haven't been getting interviews. So beware of that.

 

That being said I still got a decent amount of interviews at places I did not do electives at (within ON and OOP).

[bloh]

Not sure why you'd want to do 6 weeks of CTU electives in toronto as a uofT student. It pretty much gives away your first choice pick and it doesn't even allow you to see other cities so you can intelligently rank your list.