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Jeff123's UofT Accepted/Rejected post: 

 

Result: Accepted to St. George

Timestamp: 6:19am 

wGPA: 3.61

MCAT: Above cut offs

ECs: Professional chess player, won several regional competitions, did well in provincials. 

Essays: Strongest part of my application. Hired the right person to do them for me, though it was rather costly. 

Interview: Felt great throughout, my personality really shined during the interview. 

Year: 4th year UG

Geography: IP

 

Either a troll or a very morally misguided person. OP, don't let anything this guy says register, he doesn't seem to be the healthiest person to dish out advice 

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Jeff123's UofT Accepted/Rejected post: 

 

Result: Accepted to St. George

Timestamp: 6:19am 

wGPA: 3.61

MCAT: Above cut offs

ECs: Professional chess player, won several regional competitions, did well in provincials. 

Essays: Strongest part of my application. Hired the right person to do them for me, though it was rather costly. 

Interview: Felt great throughout, my personality really shined during the interview. 

Year: 4th year UG

Geography: IP

 

Either a troll or a very morally misguided person. OP, don't let anything this guy says register, he doesn't seem to be the healthiest person to dish out advice 

 

If you read the thread you'd know that despite his poor method of communication he was willing to see that he's wrong. 

 

Please don't use credentials or admission information to defame someone. As someone that's been a victim of this it is degrading at best.

 

This thread is meant to focus on helping the OP, not slandering another person. We've made our points and we should move on and go back on track like I've been trying to tell people earlier in the thread.  

 

- G

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If you read the thread you'd know that despite his poor method of communication he was willing to see that he's wrong. 

 

Please don't use credentials or admission information to defame someone. As someone that's been a victim of this it is degrading at best.

 

This thread is meant to focus on helping the OP, not slandering another person. We've made our points and we should move on and go back on track like I've been trying to tell people earlier in the thread.  

 

- G

 

I'm sorry you took this personally, GH0ST, but my point was to illustrate that OP has mentioned he had his essays written for him, and that he's probably a troll account looking for a reaction. I'm glad you got the satisfaction of having him "see that he's wrong."

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Has anyone heard from OP? I messaged them but they never replied. Hope everything is okay.

Hey.

 

Yea I am here.

 

I am trying to figure out what to do.

 

When it came to my mom, she apologized about how she said what she said, but still concluded that she was holding out for a Canadian chance and is majorly dissapointed.

 

Right now I am sort of at a loss of what to do. I made a post in the American section here about my situation as it stands.

 

I have a deferred acceptance to a USDO school in Indiana (I deferred from last year to this year). I am unsure on what to proceed with.

 

My parents are fine with me re-applying, but are highly doubtful of anything coming to fruition.

 

Someone else here suggested clinical psychology, as my interests in medical school chiefly center around psychiatry. I have never really thought about it, but I spent the last day and today looking more into it and seeing it as a great option. Still, I need to know more and contacted a clinical psychologist in my city, as well as a counselor I know. However, I didn't do much Psych in my undergrad. Two courses + an educational psychology based thesis. I know UWaterloo offers a make-up psychology program for people like me, to take psych courses, but not as a degree program. I was told I may only need 9 to 11 out of the total 16 credits due to my previous psych, thesis, and research methods courses from my biology degree. As well, I am mainly interested in practicing (particularly with youth and addictions). I understand there are three Psy.D programs in Canada, but the majority are PhD.... So confusing. Furthermore, I am not to sure about the job security and outlook with this profession, mainly because I hope to work with a mental health facility, rather than private practice...

 

For me, the worry lies in the expenses. Attending a US school, MD or DO, requires a lot of upfront cash. My parents are supportive, saying they will help.... But it is so much money that it worries me (what if the dollar fell even more? what if something happens to them?). On the other hand, however, it is a guaranteed path to Psychiatry. A number of Canadians are currently enrolled, close to graduating, etc. Of course, this path may mean a goodbye from Canada for good.

 

Unfortunately, as we all know, Canadian medicine is never a for sure thing.

 

In either case, I am re-applying, and members here have offered help for me in this (which I appreciate and thank greatly). I am just lost on what path to take, what is best...

 

Hmm.

 

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Hey.

 

Yea I am here.

 

I am trying to figure out what to do.

 

When it came to my mom, she apologized about how she said what she said, but still concluded that she was holding out for a Canadian chance and is majorly dissapointed.

 

Right now I am sort of at a loss of what to do. I made a post in the American section here about my situation as it stands.

 

I have a deferred acceptance to a USDO school in Indiana (I deferred from last year to this year). I am unsure on what to proceed with.

 

My parents are fine with me re-applying, but are highly doubtful of anything coming to fruition.

 

Someone else here suggested clinical psychology, as my interests in medical school chiefly center around psychiatry. I have never really thought about it, but I spent the last day and today looking more into it and seeing it as a great option. Still, I need to know more and contacted a clinical psychologist in my city, as well as a counselor I know. However, I didn't do much Psych in my undergrad. Two courses + an educational psychology based thesis. I know UWaterloo offers a make-up psychology program for people like me, to take psych courses, but not as a degree program. I was told I may only need 9 to 11 out of the total 16 credits due to my previous psych, thesis, and research methods courses from my biology degree. As well, I am mainly interested in practicing (particularly with youth and addictions). I understand there are three Psy.D programs in Canada, but the majority are PhD.... So confusing. Furthermore, I am not to sure about the job security and outlook with this profession, mainly because I hope to work with a mental health facility, rather than private practice...

 

For me, the worry lies in the expenses. Attending a US school, MD or DO, requires a lot of upfront cash. My parents are supportive, saying they will help.... But it is so much money that it worries me (what if the dollar fell even more? what if something happens to them?). On the other hand, however, it is a guaranteed path to Psychiatry. A number of Canadians are currently enrolled, close to graduating, etc. Of course, this path may mean a goodbye from Canada for good.

 

Unfortunately, as we all know, Canadian medicine is never a for sure thing.

 

In either case, I am re-applying, and members here have offered help for me in this (which I appreciate and thank greatly). I am just lost on what path to take, what is best...

 

Hmm.

 

 

 

I would go to the US med school, and re- apply to Canada. Getting into a Canadian med school is lottery!!

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I don't have a whole lot to add, except to say that empathy is extremely important - not only am I glad you reached out here, but that your mom apologized and recognized the harshness of her words. 

 

I think the psychology plan makes sense and you should pursue it. Everyone needs a viable "backup" and this would not at all preclude reapplying to med school. The one advantage of these application cycles is that experience does matter in how you come across both before and during the interview. There may be an incremental boost to your GPA. You can work on your interview skills specifically too. Next time apply broadly across the country - it's not cheap, but certainly more financially doable than pursuing anything outside Canada, even though USDO route isn't (too) risky (but it is very expensive). 

 

It's also crucial to think seriously about your goals and "Why medicine". It's something of a time suck, even though I don't always appreciate it. It also can carry with it all manner of stresses and even personal devastations on an even higher order than yours right now. The important thing really to survive and even thrive in that career is to have strong personal coping skills and stress management - and reaching out when you need to talk and need support is the singular most important part of that. 

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OP, start thinking about why were you not able to do well on the interviews?

Where the questions tough for you? Were they questions that you never prepared for before?

Do you come across as confident?

Did you practice for your interviews?

What do you feel is your main weakness?

Did you feel that your content is strong?

Do you think you thought critically about your answers? 

What are you planning to do differently this time to improve your chances?

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Hey OP

 

In terms of applying again I think everyone covered their bases there. I know it seems like the end of the world right now, but I promise you it's not. If medicine is what you want you can get it eventually, not everyone's path to medicine is cookie cutter perfect so don't worry - there's even lots of mature students studying medicine right now that are much older than you, so you have time. And if you do decide medicine isn't your thing who cares what other people think, being a doctor isn't the only job in the world nor should it be the marker for intelligence. There's intelligent people in every single profession (and lots of unintelligent people in medicine too). I can't imagine what you're going through with your family and I'm sorry you can't reach out to them, but you totally made the right move by reaching out to us. If you ever feel free the need to you can pm me. 

 

All I can say for now is that you've encountered a huge hurdle in your life, but life always has a way of figuring itself out and sometimes you just got to ride it through! I promise is you down the road things will be better

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Hey.

 

Yea I am here.

 

I am trying to figure out what to do.

 

When it came to my mom, she apologized about how she said what she said, but still concluded that she was holding out for a Canadian chance and is majorly dissapointed.

 

Right now I am sort of at a loss of what to do. I made a post in the American section here about my situation as it stands.

 

I have a deferred acceptance to a USDO school in Indiana (I deferred from last year to this year). I am unsure on what to proceed with.

 

My parents are fine with me re-applying, but are highly doubtful of anything coming to fruition.

 

Someone else here suggested clinical psychology, as my interests in medical school chiefly center around psychiatry. I have never really thought about it, but I spent the last day and today looking more into it and seeing it as a great option. Still, I need to know more and contacted a clinical psychologist in my city, as well as a counselor I know. However, I didn't do much Psych in my undergrad. Two courses + an educational psychology based thesis. I know UWaterloo offers a make-up psychology program for people like me, to take psych courses, but not as a degree program. I was told I may only need 9 to 11 out of the total 16 credits due to my previous psych, thesis, and research methods courses from my biology degree. As well, I am mainly interested in practicing (particularly with youth and addictions). I understand there are three Psy.D programs in Canada, but the majority are PhD.... So confusing. Furthermore, I am not to sure about the job security and outlook with this profession, mainly because I hope to work with a mental health facility, rather than private practice...

 

For me, the worry lies in the expenses. Attending a US school, MD or DO, requires a lot of upfront cash. My parents are supportive, saying they will help.... But it is so much money that it worries me (what if the dollar fell even more? what if something happens to them?). On the other hand, however, it is a guaranteed path to Psychiatry. A number of Canadians are currently enrolled, close to graduating, etc. Of course, this path may mean a goodbye from Canada for good.

 

Unfortunately, as we all know, Canadian medicine is never a for sure thing.

 

In either case, I am re-applying, and members here have offered help for me in this (which I appreciate and thank greatly). I am just lost on what path to take, what is best...

 

Hmm.

 

 

Hey LFOHarmonics,

 

I'm sorry to hear about what happened.  There's nothing much that hasn't already been said on this thread, but you are absolutely not a failure.  The fact that you got an interview is an achievement itself. Anecdotally it takes an applicant an average of 3 times before they get into medical school; by that logic, then there's a significant portion of physicians who tried more than 3 times who are considered "failures" yet I'm sure they're great physicians, no different than most.  We all knew there is a large luck component to this whole process, and sometimes you just need to be persistent.

 

I'm glad to hear you're interested in psychiatry, specifically youth and addictions! We need more of you in this field  :D I think you have an absolutely great shot at medical school, but at the same time like others have said, you should review your motivations for being a physician and working in psychiatry.  I'm not trying to deter you, but I just don't want you to feel pressured into a long career that you may or may not truly enjoy, because it is a really long road (9 years+ of training).  I think it would be nice to keep your mind open - there's a lot of options to work in psychiatry in a meaningful capacity beyond that of being a psychiatrist!  I'll try to offer some insight in different careers that are available in psychiatry:

 

Disclaimer: Please do your own research, I could be totally wrong.

 

  1. Clinical Psychologist.  You've mentioned this earlier, and I think there's a couple things you should keep in mind.  While clinical psychologists may seem to have significant overlap with psychiatrists in terms of diagnostics and the psychopathology, their scope of practice differs a lot.  They're both very long and difficult programs, so I would really read into the scope before even thinking of committing to either.  For example, if you want to work in youth and addictions, being a clinical psychologist will obviously have a huge impact, but you will not have access to medical interventions like opioid replacement therapy.  As for your question about Ph.D. vs Psy.D., there's not a huge difference except Ph.D. programs generally have a stronger focus in research (though poorly defined).  They both can be registered clinical psychologists (R.Psych.).  The important thing to consider is whether the Canadian Psychology Association accredits the program that you're applying to; while it is not mandatory to graduate from an accredited program to practice as a clinical psychologist, it will make your life a lot easier.  The other thing to consider is the difficulty in entering these programs.  For instance, the clinical psychology program at UBC is 7-8 years long, and I believe acceptance rate is about 3.5% (for reference, the UBC medical school acceptance rate is 13.5%).  The admission process is competitive in a different light; it is heavily dependent on relevant research experience, and connections with the professors who will be your supervisor for the degree.  As such, if you were to start from the ground up, it would require a lot of work, and a lot of time to be competitive (which chances are you would've gotten into medical school by the time you have established the relevant psychology experience).  Sure, there are other programs that are less competitive, such as Adler, but the tuition is often upwards of 100k (something you mentioned you are struggling with).  Not trying to discourage you, and if this is something you truly want to pursue, I highly recommend it; but if you were considering Clinical Psychology as a back-up plan to medical school, I'd say you have a much bigger chance at medical school given your current situation.  Also, be prepared to be paid less if you are not working a private practice.
  2. Counselling Psychology.  This I am slightly less familiar with, but its usually a 2 years masters degree that lets you practice as a counseling psychologist.  Although ill-defined, generally counselling psychology focuses less on actual psychopathology and major disease states like schizophrenia and major depressive disorder, and more on things like marital and social difficulties.  They also focus less on diagnostics, but they are trained in providing psychotherapy.  You can also get a Ph.D. in counseling psychology after, which is recognized by the Canadian Psychology Association.  I heard this job is extremely rewarding, and has a huge role in youth and addictions.
  3. Pharmacy.  Sorry, had to throw this in as a pharmacist-turned medical student.  It might be surprising to many, but pharmacy is quite clinical, and has a huge role to play in psychiatry.  Most of my experience in pharmacy has been in psychiatry, and there is a huge impact that can be made from this field.  Since psychiatry is so complex and relatively poorly understood, medications are often prescribed with no hard guidelines (ie. almost everything is first-line therapy in MDD).  As a pharmaceutical expert, you can really assist the interprofessional team and psychiatrist on how to properly manage and prescribe medications based on the latest evidence, and many times based on pharmacology as you'll reach the end of any known algorithm or evidence on treatment-resistant patients.  Of course, this road is not simple either.  It's a 4 year PharmD program (at most schools), which if you want to work in a hospital or highly clinical capacity, you need to apply for a 1-2 year residency position (which IMO is just as competitive as medical school).  Also, tuition is expensive if you're just going to leave for medical school halfway.  Just something to think about.
  4. Social Work.  No personal experience here except working with several social workers, but the impact outside of medical interventions that they can have on those struggling with addictions can be just as important, and many times even more important.  If your sole goal is to assist others in this field, I think this will be an extremely meaningful field to work in.
  5. Nurse Practitioners.  Again, no personal experience here, but nurse practitioners have probably the closest scope of practice to physicians that I know of.  They can prescribe (even narcotics in BC), do minor procedures, and diagnostic work-ups.  A lot of NPs work in psychiatry, and they're really amazing.  Again, the road is not easy.  You have to get your Registered Nurse (RN) designation through a 2-3 year program, then work X amount of hours, before you can reapply back to a nurse practitioner program.

 

I just threw out some other possibilities in psychiatry that you might want to consider, but honestly, you already got an interview at a medical school.  It seems like your best chance is just improving your chances at medical school via interview practice, and you're just one last hurdle away from entering.  I'm sorry to hear about the external pressure you've been receiving, and I can only imagine how much that hurts.  Just remember that you're not accountable to anyone except yourself.  It's hard to understand how difficult this path to medical school is unless you've walked it yourself, so I'd take any criticism from other people as "failures" with a grain of salt.  My thoracic surgeon who operated on me didn't even do medical school until his 30s, yet here he is in the head of his department.  It isn't always about how fast you get into medical school (although it is a nice bonus sometimes).

 

PM me if you want to talk.  :)

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OP I hope you know that your professional success is only a tiny facet of who you are and your success as a person. You will see an entire spectrum of physicians: from amazingly kind ones to super assholes. I'd argue that the latter are quite unsuccessful at life because they haven't figured out how to be helpful to not only those around them (including their patients), but they also haven't figured out how to be happy with themselves. And really, that's what's going to be the most important for you: what makes you happy. When you're 30 or 40 and practicing, you're not going to think "ah, I am a physician. Automatic happiness." Rather, it's going to be like any other regular job. Albeit with the potential to help many people on a regular basis. So try to block out the noise and immaturity as much as you can, and focus on what YOU really want.

 

Parents should really stop trying to coerce their children into a profession that's as (potentially) difficult as medicine. They have no idea what they're doing. And if you're up for it, you should start taking steps that convey to them that what they're doing is wrong, and you're not going to be passive about it.

 

Good luck friend.

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Jeff123's UofT Accepted/Rejected post: 

 

Result: Accepted to St. George

Timestamp: 6:19am 

wGPA: 3.61

MCAT: Above cut offs

ECs: Professional chess player, won several regional competitions, did well in provincials. 

Essays: Strongest part of my application. Hired the right person to do them for me, though it was rather costly. 

Interview: Felt great throughout, my personality really shined during the interview. 

Year: 4th year UG

Geography: IP

 

Either a troll or a very morally misguided person. OP, don't let anything this guy says register, he doesn't seem to be the healthiest person to dish out advice 

 

Holy shit I hope this guy is trolling.  If not he needs to find a way to delete this post ASAP.  He literally admits to cheating to get into med school--which is pretty bad when you consider he can probably be identified BY THIS POST.  I would be alarmed TBH.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/24/2017 at 9:03 PM, goleafsgochris said:

 

Holy shit I hope this guy is trolling.  If not he needs to find a way to delete this post ASAP.  He literally admits to cheating to get into med school--which is pretty bad when you consider he can probably be identified BY THIS POST.  I would be alarmed TBH.

Explain to me how exactly I have cheated. There are dozens of essay consultants out there who are willing to edit or write the essays, and I'm paying for this service. You think this is a rare occurrence for premed students? Think again. Getting into med school is one of the most important if not the most important goal of a premed, and this isn't "cheating", it's simply getting ahead of the curve and playing smart. 

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On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎04 at 9:09 PM, jeff123 said:

Explain to me how exactly I have cheated. There are dozens of essay consultants out there who are willing to edit or write the essays, and I'm paying for this service. You think this is a rare occurrence for premed students? Think again. Getting into med school is one of the most important if not the most important goal of a premed, and this isn't "cheating", it's simply getting ahead of the curve and playing smart. 

Yaaa but youre trying to soften it now.  You say in this response have someone "edit" the essays, whereas your initial post clearly says you had someone write them for you.  That is beyond obviously cheating, and I'm sure that is self-evident to you.

I'm not denying that its a common occurrence, I'm sure many applicants get help with essays.  However, most are smart enough to not admit it on a commonly visited public forum with other identifying information.  You realize if you get caught youre fucked right?  Like your med school will not accept the excuse "lots of other people do it" to excuse cheating.  IM just advising that if I were you I would delete these posts...

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On 6/4/2017 at 7:09 PM, jeff123 said:

Explain to me how exactly I have cheated. There are dozens of essay consultants out there who are willing to edit or write the essays, and I'm paying for this service. You think this is a rare occurrence for premed students? Think again. Getting into med school is one of the most important if not the most important goal of a premed, and this isn't "cheating", it's simply getting ahead of the curve and playing smart. 

Having something that's more common.... (and you're once again using anecdotes for facts... there's no evidence to suggest these services are commonly used among applicants) doesn't logically equate to normalization.

Generally speaking, having someone else write your essays is equivalent to cheating. Proofreading/providing feedback is different and I'm sure many people do that for their applications, but not ghostwriting. 

Following some of your other posts from other threads... advocating for pursing medicine for prestige and money... be careful. Your colleagues across the country are reading these. 

Admissions faculty reads these too. 

Since you take things bluntly... the things you are writing on this forums are questionable at best... To other readers of jeff123's posts... be careful. 

- G

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  • 2 weeks later...

To OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this as I know how difficult it must be. Know that it is a very difficult process and you are most definitely not a failure.

You've received a lot of great advice here. I would just add a few more things from the perspective of a soon to be (finally!) practicing staff physician, after a very long road to get there.

As many others have mentioned, if medicine is truly the only career you feel is right for you, then you should absolutely consider re-applying. I had med school classmates who got in on their 7th try applying and went on to have very happy/successful careers as physicians.

However, I remember applying to med school and being convinced that it was the ONLY career that would make me happy. When I got in, I felt a huge relief and assumed things would be smooth sailing from here on. What followed was over 10 years of gruelling work, continued sacrifice, and jumping through many, many more hoops. While I love what I do and ultimately have been lucky enough to get a good job in my field, I have questioned MANY times over the years whether I could have been just as happy going down a different path, and the answer to that is likely a resounding yes. Medicine is a great career, but it comes with much personal sacrifice and it's very easy to get sucked into a set trajectory and dismiss other options- for example, in retrospect I think I could have been a very happy working in law or health policy. 

Ultimately, if medicine is truly your (only) dream, then don't give up on it just yet! But I echo the sentiment of others urging you to take this time to reevaluate your goals and consider broadening your options.

 

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The worst part isn't that you got rejected. Try again next time. You're never really out of the running.

 

The worst part is how absolutely awful your mom sounds. I'm sorry to hear that. You must feel really lonely. 

 

Use that as motivation to keep making a stab at it. Once you become successful, delete your mom from your life. You don't need that kind of poison ruining your self-worth, and she doesn't deserve to piggyback off your potential future success. Drop her when you win.

 

Edit: I see your mom has apologized. She needed to do that. 

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