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Kingston Vs. London Vs. Toronto For Pt?


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Late to the party but I was wondering if anyone could go talk about pros and cons of the campus life and cities themselves. I would actually love to hear the honest negatives of each. It seems every Queens student I ask, Western is the worst place ever and vice versa.

 

I have a slight edge towards Queen's right now based on what I've heard about the academics and future job prospects, but I would for sure want to live in a city that I would love as well.

 

Thanks in advance. :)  :)

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From what I've seen here, people seem to choose UofT > Western > Queen's, for living and academic purposes. But I've read of people here choosing Western as their #1, etc. Everyone has their reasons. That being said, they're all good schools with great PT programs. A lot of what impacts people accepted to all 3 (or more) is where they prefer to live. Future job prospects is probably identical among graduates from all 3 schools, although going to one school may give you an upper hand in future jobs within that area (ie. Going to UofT and getting a job in Toronto post graduation - making connections at facilities within the city).

 

I don't have experience as a student at Western/Queen's, but I did my undergrad at UofT. In my opinion, it's an amazing institution in an amazing city. I love Toronto because of its diversity, and that there is so much to do. The campus is massive and amazing as well! UofT arguably has the best reputation as a university in the country, if that matters to you.. I've heard that UofT/Western both have exceptional anatomy and msk/ortho components to the curriculum. Not sure about Queen's, but I've heard great things too!

 

Look into the cities and campuses before making a decision, as that may have a major influence on you. You can't really go wrong with any of these programs tbh.

 

What have you heard about future job prospects? Aside from making connections within specific cities (depending what school you go to, placements), I don't really think there will be much of a difference when searching for jobs.

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From what I've seen here, people seem to choose UofT > Western > Queen's, for living and academic purposes. But I've read of people here choosing Western as their #1, etc. Everyone has their reasons. That being said, they're all good schools with great PT programs. A lot of what impacts people accepted to all 3 (or more) is where they prefer to live. Future job prospects is probably identical among graduates from all 3 schools, although going to one school may give you an upper hand in future jobs within that area (ie. Going to UofT and getting a job in Toronto post graduation - making connections at facilities within the city).

 

I don't have experience as a student at Western/Queen's, but I did my undergrad at UofT. In my opinion, it's an amazing institution in an amazing city. I love Toronto because of its diversity, and that there is so much to do. The campus is massive and amazing as well! UofT arguably has the best reputation as a university in the country, if that matters to you.. I've heard that UofT/Western both have exceptional anatomy and msk/ortho components to the curriculum. Not sure about Queen's, but I've heard great things too!

 

Look into the cities and campuses before making a decision, as that may have a major influence on you. You can't really go wrong with any of these programs tbh.

 

What have you heard about future job prospects? Aside from making connections within specific cities (depending what school you go to, placements), I don't really think there will be much of a difference when searching for jobs.

 

Thank you for the response. It's a little bit anecdotal, but talking to people from the 2 clinics that I've volunteered at they have both said that in their experience Queen's PT grads have better hands-on skills and they slightly prefer Queen's grads. I guess it's my personal experience but like you said, it's about the connections. 

 

I agree that I do need to do more research on the cities/campuses to make a final decision. It's kind of difficult to get any negatives out of the tour guides from the university, they all say their campus/city is the best. This is why I'd love to hear what people have to say about anything they didn't like. Is there anything you didn't like about living in Toronto? 

 

Thanks again!

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I didn't live on campus or student housing, so I can't really comment on that. I took the TTC for about 20-25 minutes each way. That's probably what I hated most, as it's slow, always has delays and is always packed.. Kind of stressful starting your day like that, I feel for people who do it every day during rush hour times. If you're living near campus that shouldn't be a problem though. Can't think of much more tbh. It's a big city with a lot going on, so I guess it can be loud at times, but also depending where you live. But the sports (I'm a big Jays/Leafs fan), restaurants, etc is a big plus.

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Ok so I did 6 years at Western (undergrad+ physio) and grew up near the U of T campus and did 1 summer semester there. I haven’t attended Queen’s but I have done an official tour and had unofficial tours from friends that went there, so I’ll tell you what I can.

 

In terms of schooling and jobs, any difference you can find is marginal. Any of the 3 schools offers top notch education and opportunities for the future. Sure some schools have “specialties” areas. In addition to MSK, another area Western is really delving into is bettering diagnosis and treatment of concussions. However, there is flexibility in your placements within the catchment areas, so if you’re truly passionate about one area, there are opportunities for you to have placements in that area at any school. Being objective about this, I can’t say that Western or any other program is for sure better than the others. They will all get you a job in the end as long as you make the connections.

 

As for the cities and campus life, I will try to break it down into sections. Let me know if there’s anything else you want me to go into. I will mostly compare London and Toronto, and will tell you what I know about Kingston if I do know.

 

Campus: UofT is a big campus which has a lot of beautiful architecture both old and new. It’s right downtown Toronto, so you’re within walking distance of almost anything you can imagine but it’s nice because it’s almost isolated, and the side streets are actually really quiet. However, the big streets (College/University/Bloor) are really busy and people always seem to be in a rush. Western is very isolated from the rest of London, the river wraps around campus and it definitely does feel like a big community of students. While I thought the campus was beautiful initially and still do, it has kind of waned on me over time. Campus is probably the smallest of the 3 and there’s a lot of construction and they’re always building new buildings to where it feels really compact and concrete-y (heck we even have a place called concrete beach). There’s also geese poop everywhere in the spring and fall (you asked me to be honest!) I thought Queen’s was beautiful and much more spread out with more quads and green around campus than Western. Being an outdoors, weekends on the lake kind of person, the campus at Queen's is right on the Lake which was a plus for me (I went swimming there in the summer!). They’re all beautiful and I think I’m picking on Western because I was there so long but honestly, in my mind right now: UofT>Queen’s>Western

 

Student experience: Western=Queen's > U of T

Ok so Western is really known for the student community and this is true. It’s very much a social school and you get to meet lots of awesome people. There’s lot of clubs and there’s definitely a community of students for everyone to fit in. Profs are generally really cool and they really care about you. I’ve talked for hours with profs just about life and travelling (not even school-related) and they really do enjoy getting to know you. I'm sure there are profs like this at other schools too, you just have to make an effort to talk to them. I felt that U of T was much more of a studious and less social environment. It’s a busy city and from what I experienced, the students seem to always be in a rush.  Then again, you’ll have your fellow PT classmates who I’m sure will be great people. I’ve heard Queen’s is a really social school too, great school spirit like Western (which is probably why we have such a big rivalry). My friends that went to Queen's loved it and it seems very much comparable to Western in terms of student experience. 

 

Living: ok this one is tough, rent is obviously way higher in Toronto than London, but everything at U of T is so convenient. You can walk just about anywhere and groceries are super easy to get. Chinatown is minutes away and you can get some really cheap produce there. London is cheaper but it can also be a pain to get around. Within a 2km radius or so of campus is basically all housing and little in terms of businesses, groceries were definitely annoying without a car. I guess overall Toronto is a little more hectic but also easier to get around but more expensive. London is much more quiet, cheaper but harder to get around (public transit isn’t bad, but not quite on par with Toronto) I’ve heard Queen’s is very similar living wise to London, but I don’t have first hand experience.

 

Food: Alright so I love trying diverse foods and Toronto definitely has the edge on this one. Some highlights near campus are definitely Baldwin Village and Chinatown, but there’s definitely a huge diversity of food to get in Toronto that’s walking distance from campus. London is pretty meh for food. There’s some decent places but overall it’s mostly just the chain sit-down places (Moxie’s, Jack Astors, etc…). Food on campus is your regular fast food chains (Subway, Manchu Wok, Harvey’s) and wasn’t great, nothing really walking distance either, so pack a lunch! I went to some diners in Kingston when I was there which was nice, but pretty much on par with what London has to offer. Not sure about campus food.

 

Entertainment: Can’t really argue this one, Toronto can’t be beat, whether it’s the arts, sports or anything in-between, there’s something for you in the city. London was a little bland, party scene is good, but everything else pales in comparison to Toronto.

 

Crime: I guess I should get this one out there too so you know what to expect. Western's campus and the housing around it is not a problem and I never felt unsafe walking at night, even after a 3am late night study sesh (they have a program where they have volunteers walk you home at night if you're uncomfortable too). However London can be a really sketchy place the further south (towards downtown) you go. The one time I had to run an errand down south at night, I was legitimately scared I was going to get robbed. There's a huge amount of bike theft too (even on campus, they have signs warning you), so make sure to get a real nice lock if you do go that route. Toronto is definitely a hectic place and crime does happen, but I found if you don't look for trouble, you won't find trouble. Toronto felt safer for me because there was always a lot people almost everywhere but there's definitely places to avoid at night as well. I can't tell you anything meaningful about Queen's here.

 

Wow I ended up getting really into this, I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. 

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From the perspective of clinical internships/placements, I would say UofT is hands down the best (I'm biased though, I'm a 1st yr at UofT now). Looking at the downtown hospitals and rehab centres in Toronto you would have an opportunity to work in, it's pretty much unbeatable in terms of clinical experience (Toronto General, SickKids, Lyndhurst, etc).

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From the perspective of clinical internships/placements, I would say UofT is hands down the best (I'm biased though, I'm a 1st yr at UofT now). Looking at the downtown hospitals and rehab centres in Toronto you would have an opportunity to work in, it's pretty much unbeatable in terms of clinical experience (Toronto General, SickKids, Lyndhurst, etc).

 

I actually agree with you on this. Western has a relative big catchment area, and some of the placements you're going to have to drive a couple hours a day or move out to the city to get there. Some of the in-city placements are relatively far on public transit too, basically it can be a pain without a car. I can't deny that U of T has better placement options, and I was honestly a little jealous. They have placements in pretty much any big name hospital in Toronto and you really can't beat that.

 

Funny story, I was actually convinced PT was a career path of interest in high school when I was volunteering at Sunnybrook and talked to one of the UofT PT students on placement there.

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Thanks for the replies everyone, I really do appreciate it.

 

 

Ok so I did 6 years at Western (undergrad+ physio) and grew up near the U of T campus and did 1 summer semester there. I haven’t attended Queen’s but I have done an official tour and had unofficial tours from friends that went there, so I’ll tell you what I can.

 

In terms of schooling and jobs, any difference you can find is marginal. Any of the 3 schools offers top notch education and opportunities for the future. Sure some schools have “specialties” areas. In addition to MSK, another area Western is really delving into is bettering diagnosis and treatment of concussions. However, there is flexibility in your placements within the catchment areas, so if you’re truly passionate about one area, there are opportunities for you to have placements in that area at any school. Being objective about this, I can’t say that Western or any other program is for sure better than the others. They will all get you a job in the end as long as you make the connections.

 

As for the cities and campus life, I will try to break it down into sections. Let me know if there’s anything else you want me to go into. I will mostly compare London and Toronto, and will tell you what I know about Kingston if I do know.

 

Campus: UofT is a big campus which has a lot of beautiful architecture both old and new. It’s right downtown Toronto, so you’re within walking distance of almost anything you can imagine but it’s nice because it’s almost isolated, and the side streets are actually really quiet. However, the big streets (College/University/Bloor) are really busy and people always seem to be in a rush. Western is very isolated from the rest of London, the river wraps around campus and it definitely does feel like a big community of students. While I thought the campus was beautiful initially and still do, it has kind of waned on me over time. Campus is probably the smallest of the 3 and there’s a lot of construction and they’re always building new buildings to where it feels really compact and concrete-y (heck we even have a place called concrete beach). There’s also geese poop everywhere in the spring and fall (you asked me to be honest!) I thought Queen’s was beautiful and much more spread out with more quads and green around campus than Western. Being an outdoors, weekends on the lake kind of person, the campus at Queen's is right on the Lake which was a plus for me (I went swimming there in the summer!). They’re all beautiful and I think I’m picking on Western because I was there so long but honestly, in my mind right now: UofT>Queen’s>Western

 

Student experience: Western=Queen's > U of T

Ok so Western is really known for the student community and this is true. It’s very much a social school and you get to meet lots of awesome people. There’s lot of clubs and there’s definitely a community of students for everyone to fit in. Profs are generally really cool and they really care about you. I’ve talked for hours with profs just about life and travelling (not even school-related) and they really do enjoy getting to know you. I'm sure there are profs like this at other schools too, you just have to make an effort to talk to them. I felt that U of T was much more of a studious and less social environment. It’s a busy city and from what I experienced, the students seem to always be in a rush.  Then again, you’ll have your fellow PT classmates who I’m sure will be great people. I’ve heard Queen’s is a really social school too, great school spirit like Western (which is probably why we have such a big rivalry). My friends that went to Queen's loved it and it seems very much comparable to Western in terms of student experience. 

 

Living: ok this one is tough, rent is obviously way higher in Toronto than London, but everything at U of T is so convenient. You can walk just about anywhere and groceries are super easy to get. Chinatown is minutes away and you can get some really cheap produce there. London is cheaper but it can also be pain to get around. Within a 2km radius or so of campus is basically all housing and little in terms of businesses, groceries were definitely annoying without a car. I guess overall Toronto is a little more hectic but also easier to get around but more expensive. London is much more quiet, cheaper but harder to get around (public transit isn’t bad, but not quite on par with Toronto) I’ve heard Queen’s is very similar living wise to London, but I don’t have first hand experience.

 

Food: Alright so I love trying diverse foods and Toronto definitely has the edge on this one. Some highlights near campus are definitely Baldwin Village and Chinatown, but there’s definitely a huge diversity of food to get in Toronto that’s walking distance from campus. London is pretty meh for food. There’s some decent places but overall it’s mostly just the chain sit-down places (Moxie’s, Jack Astors, etc…). Food on campus is your regular fast food chains (Subway, Manchu Wok, Harvey’s) and wasn’t great, nothing really walking distance either, so pack a lunch! I went to some diners in Kingston when I was there which was nice, but pretty much on par with what London has to offer. Not sure about campus food.

 

Entertainment: Can’t really argue this one, Toronto can’t be beat, whether it’s the arts, sports or anything in-between, there’s something for you in the city. London was a little bland, party scene is good, but everything else pales in comparison to Toronto.

 

Crime: I guess I should get this one out there too so you know what to expect. Western's campus and the housing around it is not a problem and I never felt unsafe walking at night, even after a 3am late night study sesh (they have a program where they have volunteers walk you home at night if you're uncomfortable too). However London can be a really sketchy place the further south (towards downtown) you go. The one time I had to run an errand down south at night, I was legitimately scared I was going to get robbed. There's a huge amount of bike theft too (even on campus, they have signs warning you), so make sure to get a real nice lock if you do go that route. Toronto is definitely a hectic place and crime does happen, but I found if you don't look for trouble, you won't find trouble. Toronto felt safer for me because there was always a lot people almost everywhere but there's definitely places to avoid at night as well. I can't tell you anything meaningful about Queen's here.

 

Wow I ended up getting really into this, I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. 

 

I have a few more questions for you.

Can you elaborate more on the transit system in London. How is it for reliability? 

Also what made you decide to go to Western over UofT?

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Hi There!

 

I might be one of the only person that has gone to Queens, Western, and UofT for various degrees!

 

I did my PT degree at UofT and will say that the education I received (teachers that literally wrote your anatomy books, or provided the standardized tests used Canada and worldwide)  and the opportunities in clinical placements (Sports teams, Concussion Clinics, National Ballet of Canada, Army Reserves, numerous primary, secondary and tertiary public health care facilities that are world renown).  Toronto as a city however can be overwhelming - pricey housing, very busy, unreliable transit - but exciting if you're into big city lifestyle!

 

I did my undergrad at Queen's and will say it is a FANTASTIC university town! It has a unique atmosphere because it is much smaller than the other two universities and the campus reflects that. It is a beautiful campus and it is helpful that most people will live between a 5 and 10 minute walk from campus. And downtown. And literally everything else you might want to do in Kingston. Outside of the Queen's bubble however can be a bit grim, and the winters are absolutely brutal (and there is very little to do outside of bar culture).

In terms of Queen's reputation, I have many colleagues who went to Queen's, who are wonderful therapists! I haven't heard any preference overall, but Queen's is a bit of a cult (in a good way! Cha Gueill!) and I can see Queen's grads liking other Queen's grads.  One downfall that I do know of first hand is the placements, especially for hospitals, at Queen's (few hospitals - especially if you are interested in Neurorehab/Cardioresp) and lower amounts of resources given by the department each year to assist in out of catchment placements.

 

I did a Master's degree at Western in London and had a blast! I lived downtown and bought a parking pass and drove to school everyday which worked for me!  I preferred to be near the center, with the summer festivals in Victoria Park, coffee shops, restaurants etc. The summers are the absolute best (only an hour and a bit from either gorgeous beachs in Lake Erie or Lake Huron, lots of camping, etc.) However, if you do not have a car, I would suggest going within walking distance of Elborn - the buses do work, and you are given a bus pass, but they can be unreliable, and overfilled at peak hours/winter/raining etc. There was a transit strike when I was there and things got messy! 

In terms of reputation for UWO PT, I do not know too much other than they get taught by the best of the best in terms of manual therapists - all the experts are located there and they are taught some pretty advanced techniques. However, for the national exam, a pretty basic knowledge in MSK manual techniques is only needed, so if you're interested in anything other than orthopaedics, then maybe UWO isn't your jam.

 

Overall, I loved each school and each city in their own way. I would go for the city you want to work in afterwards to be honest. 50% of my graduating class got jobs in clinics/hospitals they did their last placement in and I would say even more landed jobs in locations they did a previous placement at.  Anywhere you go, you will get a worldclass education that is respected wherever you end up - welcome to an amazing career future colleague!

 

Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions!

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London transit can be a little sparse, lot of routes to campus but you might have to wait 30 minutes for a bus to the outskirts and you also might have to transfer 2-3 buses because they have weird routes. Toronto transit is relatively simple, they go down one street and most big streets are covered. At worst you take 1 connecting bus/subway/streetcar. Generally London transit is pretty reliable and they have an app that tells you when the bus gets to each stop. Don't get me wrong, it's still a really good transit system, just a little less coverage of the city than Toronto

 

Also, the thing with London transit is, they make some silly decisions. I think last year, someone somehow discovered that the bridge to campus wasn't "stable" enough to support a double bus but single buses were okay. So they re-routed the whole route (even the single buses) off-campus and a ton of students had to walk pretty far onto campus. Last I heard they also wanted to put in a light rail transit system directly through campus, which is going to be a nightmare in terms of construction and traffic but I'm not sure if it got approved. 

 

Unfortunately U of T didn't love me back, but I would have gone if I could. I picked Western over Queen's without giving it too much thought because of the familiarity I had with undergrad.

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Hi There!

 

I might be one of the only person that has gone to Queens, Western, and UofT for various degrees!

 

I did my PT degree at UofT and will say that the education I received (teachers that literally wrote your anatomy books, or provided the standardized tests used Canada and worldwide)  and the opportunities in clinical placements (Sports teams, Concussion Clinics, National Ballet of Canada, Army Reserves, numerous primary, secondary and tertiary public health care facilities that are world renown).  Toronto as a city however can be overwhelming - pricey housing, very busy, unreliable transit - but exciting if you're into big city lifestyle!

 

I did my undergrad at Queen's and will say it is a FANTASTIC university town! It has a unique atmosphere because it is much smaller than the other two universities and the campus reflects that. It is a beautiful campus and it is helpful that most people will live between a 5 and 10 minute walk from campus. And downtown. And literally everything else you might want to do in Kingston. Outside of the Queen's bubble however can be a bit grim, and the winters are absolutely brutal (and there is very little to do outside of bar culture).

In terms of Queen's reputation, I have many colleagues who went to Queen's, who are wonderful therapists! I haven't heard any preference overall, but Queen's is a bit of a cult (in a good way! Cha Gueill!) and I can see Queen's grads liking other Queen's grads.  One downfall that I do know of first hand is the placements, especially for hospitals, at Queen's (few hospitals - especially if you are interested in Neurorehab/Cardioresp) and lower amounts of resources given by the department each year to assist in out of catchment placements.

 

I did a Master's degree at Western in London and had a blast! I lived downtown and bought a parking pass and drove to school everyday which worked for me!  I preferred to be near the center, with the summer festivals in Victoria Park, coffee shops, restaurants etc. The summers are the absolute best (only an hour and a bit from either gorgeous beachs in Lake Erie or Lake Huron, lots of camping, etc.) However, if you do not have a car, I would suggest going within walking distance of Elborn - the buses do work, and you are given a bus pass, but they can be unreliable, and overfilled at peak hours/winter/raining etc. There was a transit strike when I was there and things got messy! 

In terms of reputation for UWO PT, I do not know too much other than they get taught by the best of the best in terms of manual therapists - all the experts are located there and they are taught some pretty advanced techniques. However, for the national exam, a pretty basic knowledge in MSK manual techniques is only needed, so if you're interested in anything other than orthopaedics, then maybe UWO isn't your jam.

 

Overall, I loved each school and each city in their own way. I would go for the city you want to work in afterwards to be honest. 50% of my graduating class got jobs in clinics/hospitals they did their last placement in and I would say even more landed jobs in locations they did a previous placement at.  Anywhere you go, you will get a worldclass education that is respected wherever you end up - welcome to an amazing career future colleague!

 

Feel free to message me if you have any specific questions!

 

Sounds like you definitely had fun in each of the cities. I think you're the first person that I've talked to that's actually lived in both Kingston and London for extended periods of time! Could you elaborate a little on your experience in Kingston? Like what are some things to do in the "everything else" to do list. I probably won't have access to a car next year, so would you say Kingston is a little more accessible than London?

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Sounds like you definitely had fun in each of the cities. I think you're the first person that I've talked to that's actually lived in both Kingston and London for extended periods of time! Could you elaborate a little on your experience in Kingston? Like what are some things to do in the "everything else" to do list. I probably won't have access to a car next year, so would you say Kingston is a little more accessible than London?

 

Kingston is very small, especially if you've grown up in any kind of city! You can walk from one end of downtown to the other in about 30 minutes - but it has lots of shops, bars, restaurants, coffee places, grocery stores etc. It's become much more hipster since I left (I went back for my 5 year reunion), but the restaurants are even better now I think!  During the winter, there is a really pretty skating rink on the downtown square, but there wasn't very much in terms of organized activities in the winter. One cool thing about Kingston is that it is less than 2 hours to Ottawa and 2 hours to Montreal - buses go straight from the Queen's campus on Fridays and back to Kingston on Sundays. I spent many weekends in Montreal when I should have been studying! If you're lucky enough to have some people in your class with a cottage around Kingston - take advantage! It is SO pretty in the lakes surrounding.

 

Most people in graduate school live between downtown and the Queen's campus, closer to the water.  There are more apartment buildings there and smaller houses (and much nicer houses) - the ghetto can super fun, but I was 100% ready to leave it behind when I graduated!  I hardly ever needed to use the transit - I walked absolutely everywhere. Hotel Dieu and KGH are definitely within walking distance, but most other facilities will most likely need transit. It is doable, but the transit is not nearly as reliable as Toronto, or London.

 

I would say overall Kingston is more accessible for the mainstays - getting to class, getting groceries, getting downtown, getting to the gym etc.  London, however, is a much bigger city (it has two huge malls! Kingston has one tiny one and it is no where near the downtown core) and has a lot more variety of amenities and things to do (festivals, sporting events, concerts, shopping). The transit does work - but getting to/from campus from 7-9am and 3-6pm it is quite busy and often you will have to wait for another (or 2 or 3) buses because they are so packed!

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Thanks for the excellent and detailed responses everyone! 

 

I think UofT will be a little too crazy for me being from a small town.I havedecided on Queen's over Western based on the seemingly better reputation at Queen's. Thanks again everyone!

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