kdottt Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 Hi All,I post here scarcely, but felt that this was a good place to ask for opinions/advice since I'm really torn on what I should do.I've been admitted into pharmacy school at the University of Toronto (I'm from Toronto), as well as medical school in Australia. I've been accepted into UQ, and also have an interview at Sydney but I'm leaning towards UQ because it's cheaper. If you can guys can highlight the pros and cons of each, that would be great. Ultimately, I think medicine would make me happier, but the cost is an issue as I don't come from a wealthy family. How do people overcome the cost issues when studying abroad? If you do a cost benefit analysis, pharmacy seems to be a much better option in the short term (i.e for about the next 15 years) after that medicine is the better option easily.Considering those things, and the barriers to entry back into North America with an Australian degree, what would you guys recommend. In terms of speciality, I would love Psychiatry, but if I have to settle for FM, I'd be fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 I would take pharmacy school in Canada, over med school abroad. Pharmacy school will help prep you for medical school too if you decide to go for it later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowmen Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said: I would take pharmacy school in Canada, over med school abroad. Pharmacy school will help prep you for medical school too if you decide to go for it later. This. You mostly have to decide between being a pharmacist in Canada or very possibly being a physician abroad. I would personally go the pharmacy route if that doesn't penalise you for medical school (not sure how the anglophone schools treat doctoral degrees). Going to medical school abroad puts you under a load of debt with no certainty that you'll be able to come back or even have a way to repay that debt. To me, that's way too big of a gamble and one I never would've taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdottt Posted June 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 25 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said: I would take pharmacy school in Canada, over med school abroad. Pharmacy school will help prep you for medical school too if you decide to go for it later. 6 minutes ago, Snowmen said: This. You mostly have to decide between being a pharmacist in Canada or very possibly being a physician abroad. I would personally go the pharmacy route if that doesn't penalise you for medical school (not sure how the anglophone schools treat doctoral degrees). Going to medical school abroad puts you under a load of debt with no certainty that you'll be able to come back or even have a way to repay that debt. To me, that's way too big of a gamble and one I never would've taken. I understand your suggestions, but attending medical school AFTER pharmacy is not something I'm considering at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowmen Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, kdottt said: I understand your suggestions, but attending medical school AFTER pharmacy is not something I'm considering at all. Wouldn't you be able to continue applying during pharmacy school or at least for the first year or two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, kdottt said: I understand your suggestions, but attending medical school AFTER pharmacy is not something I'm considering at all. Why not? Plenty of people do that. Regardless, i would go with Pharmacy school either way. It can help you improve your GPA so that you can get into a north american medical school, either Canada or the U.S. Most of this seems like a moot point - do you have the funds or not to attend abroad anyways? You indicate your not from a wealth family, this doesn't really say much, will you have any financial support for potential medical studies in australia? Line of credit and student loans will not cover it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Snowmen said: Wouldn't you be able to continue applying during pharmacy school or at least for the first year or two? Yes you can apply at any point of pharmacy school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonlitocean Posted June 12, 2017 Report Share Posted June 12, 2017 If cost is an issue, don't go abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khan911 Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 if your're considering going to Australia you need to be okay with doing residency in Australia if you cannot get a spot in Canada. Additionally UQ has great match rates for Canadian students who want to come back and considering you're aiming for psychiatry/family med you actually have a decent chance to come back. But again it is alot of money and if you dont get a spot in Canada you need to be okay with doing a residency in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdottt Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, khan911 said: if your're considering going to Australia you need to be okay with doing residency in Australia if you cannot get a spot in Canada. Additionally UQ has great match rates for Canadian students who want to come back and considering you're aiming for psychiatry/family med you actually have a decent chance to come back. But again it is alot of money and if you dont get a spot in Canada you need to be okay with doing a residency in Australia. thanks for the advice! I am certainly more than ok with doing residency in Australia, even rurally (prospect of getting a rural residency are pretty good there). The only issue currently is that there have been some changes made to the visa situation, that may prevent internationals from completing residency training. Presumably, you would only be allowed to stay for two additional years post-graduation, but I'm not yet sure if that is applicable to medicine graduate. There isn't much information available yet because this law just got passed recently. I also plan on writing the USMLE's along with MCC's to further my chances of landing in North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 37 minutes ago, khan911 said: if your're considering going to Australia you need to be okay with doing residency in Australia if you cannot get a spot in Canada. Additionally UQ has great match rates for Canadian students who want to come back and considering you're aiming for psychiatry/family med you actually have a decent chance to come back. But again it is alot of money and if you dont get a spot in Canada you need to be okay with doing a residency in Australia. Not gauranteed to do residency in aussie depending on the school catchment area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khan911 Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 its not guaranteed, but the chance of getting an Australian residency > Canadian residency which is why they need to be okay with it. The job off course is not guaranteed but chances are you will get a job, just might not be where you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khan911 Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 4 hours ago, kdottt said: thanks for the advice! I am certainly more than ok with doing residency in Australia, even rurally (prospect of getting a rural residency are pretty good there). The only issue currently is that there have been some changes made to the visa situation, that may prevent internationals from completing residency training. Presumably, you would only be allowed to stay for two additional years post-graduation, but I'm not yet sure if that is applicable to medicine graduate. There isn't much information available yet because this law just got passed recently. I also plan on writing the USMLE's along with MCC's to further my chances of landing in North America. International students in med usually get Permenent residency after the first year of residency though so I don't think that's an issue. And yes it's likely to be rural but rural here is like a small town next to the beach so no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prehealth101 Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 4 hours ago, JohnGrisham said: Not gauranteed to do residency in aussie depending on the school catchment area. This isn't the typical Internship Priority Ranking problem. It's a new legislation that apparently passed (or going to be passed?) that impacts ALL international graduates. It's so fresh that most people don't know about it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdottt Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 12 hours ago, khan911 said: International students in med usually get Permenent residency after the first year of residency though so I don't think that's an issue. And yes it's likely to be rural but rural here is like a small town next to the beach so no big deal. are you currently studying in aussie? if so, do you mind if i pm you some questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 13 hours ago, prehealth101 said: This isn't the typical Internship Priority Ranking problem. It's a new legislation that apparently passed (or going to be passed?) that impacts ALL international graduates. It's so fresh that most people don't know about it yet. I'm well aware of the new issues also As for the PR after first year of residency, i have never heard of that, source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamham Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 I know 5-8 people who went to Australia (Queensland, Melbourne, Sydney) for med after failing to land an MD spot in Canada, and none of them returned to Canada for residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdottt Posted June 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, hamham said: I know 5-8 people who went to Australia (Queensland, Melbourne, Sydney) for med after failing to land an MD spot in Canada, and none of them returned to Canada for residency. im not bent on returning to Canada. Were they able to get a spot in US or Australia? As long as I get a spot somewhere I'm okay with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, kdottt said: im not bent on returning to Canada. Were they able to get a spot in US or Australia? As long as I get a spot somewhere I'm okay with it You say that now, but you won't know for sure until actually in the various health care systems. All 3 systems are very different, in the way post-grad training is administered, and as well as how it is to actually be an attending...and how patient interactions are undertaken due to system pressures. I know quite a few aussie med students, those that didnt match in Canada, more often then not matched in the US...some matched in rural australia, and those who didn't match are doing research to fill the time until re-application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 The U.S. is also nowhere near a gauranteed backup as it used to be. Health Canada has been very restrictive towards what specialties and how many people can undertake residency in the US under the J1 visa program. Even just a few years ago, if you had good board scores and were flexible with location, you could find a spot somewhere in the US as a backup when being an iMG. But nowadays, things are even more restricted for IMGs. This is why people say to go USMD or USDO before going IMG, since they have different pathways to get residency in the US that IMGs don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlm12 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 4 hours ago, JohnGrisham said: The U.S. is also nowhere near a gauranteed backup as it used to be. Health Canada has been very restrictive towards what specialties and how many people can undertake residency in the US under the J1 visa program. Even just a few years ago, if you had good board scores and were flexible with location, you could find a spot somewhere in the US as a backup when being an iMG. But nowadays, things are even more restricted for IMGs. This is why people say to go USMD or USDO before going IMG, since they have different pathways to get residency in the US that IMGs don't. Are there many CMG who go to the US for residency? From what you said, I would assume this is becoming more difficult as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, wlm12 said: Are there many CMG who go to the US for residency? From what you said, I would assume this is becoming more difficult as well. Not very many, most go for Canadian residencies. Some that are going for competitive residencies may opt for it, or if they dont match try for the US in following applications. Or just personal preferences, but not very common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamham Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 7 hours ago, kdottt said: im not bent on returning to Canada. Were they able to get a spot in US or Australia? As long as I get a spot somewhere I'm okay with it Most (if not all) ended up in the US. There are just so many residency spots in the US. But this path just brings so much uncertainty. One thing for sure, none of them were happy with their outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, hamham said: Most (if not all) ended up in the US. There are just so many residency spots in the US. But this path just brings so much uncertainty. One thing for sure, none of them were happy with their outcomes. And while people in the past were lucky to get US residencies, this past year and moving forward is proving to be more doubtful of that path too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khan911 Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 11 hours ago, JohnGrisham said: The U.S. is also nowhere near a gauranteed backup as it used to be. Health Canada has been very restrictive towards what specialties and how many people can undertake residency in the US under the J1 visa program. Even just a few years ago, if you had good board scores and were flexible with location, you could find a spot somewhere in the US as a backup when being an iMG. But nowadays, things are even more restricted for IMGs. This is why people say to go USMD or USDO before going IMG, since they have different pathways to get residency in the US that IMGs don't. USDO is treated as img by Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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