Please help, want to know if I have any chance at Canadian school

[HopingForPhys]

I live in Toronto, Canada. I graduated last year with a Kinesiology and Psychology degree and I'm now considering applying to physiotherapy. My GPA for last 60 credits were 3.755 according to OLSAS scale (although course load was apread out). My overall GPA was probably 3.5ish. I want to get in to a school in Canada ideally since the tuition is cheaper but given my mediocre GPA I'm open to going to the states.

Please if you can, give me some recommendations on what I can do to improve my chances. I once volunteered in a KINE lab but apart from that I don't have much volunteering experience. If you think that I have a shot at a Canadian program, what do you think I should do this summer and fall to optimize my chances? Which schools do I have a shot at?

I've held this off too long and I'm really passionate about getting in to a Physiotherapy program and getting my life together. Also, if you think that a DPT program in physiotherapy is more suitable than a masters, please let me know.

Thanks.

[PTapplicant2017]

If you are applying to Ontario schools, then judging by this years admissions cycle you currently will only have a shot at Queen's (cutoff of 3.68 sGPA). McMaster and U of T both had cutoffs of 3.82 sGPA this year for interview/CAP testing and Western has similar sGPA to Mac and Toronto (although a definitive number is not provided publicly). Even with Queen's having a relatively low sGPA cutoff, the actual average of the incoming class is still pretty high (similar to the other schools) and you need a ton of community and physio volunteer experience, as they are more holistic in their approach (ultimately it isn't any easier simply because of a lower cutoff).

Seeing as you have about half a year to improve your apps, I would recommend taking a few extra classes so that you can jump past that 3.82 sGPA hurdle and work on getting a little bit of physio experience in a hospital/clinic, that way you can improve your chances at all schools by getting past the cutoffs and getting interviews/application reviewed. 

[HopingForPhys]

4 hours ago, PTapplicant2017 said:

If you are applying to Ontario schools, then judging by this years admissions cycle you currently will only have a shot at Queen's (cutoff of 3.68 sGPA). McMaster and U of T both had cutoffs of 3.82 sGPA this year for interview/CAP testing and Western has similar sGPA to Mac and Toronto (although a definitive number is not provided publicly). Even with Queen's having a relatively low sGPA cutoff, the actual average of the incoming class is still pretty high (similar to the other schools) and you need a ton of community and physio volunteer experience, as they are more holistic in their approach (ultimately it isn't any easier simply because of a lower cutoff).

Seeing as you have about half a year to improve your apps, I would recommend taking a few extra classes so that you can jump past that 3.82 sGPA hurdle and work on getting a little bit of physio experience in a hospital/clinic, that way you can improve your chances at all schools by getting past the cutoffs and getting interviews/application reviewed. 

Thanks for the response. Do you think taking 3 extra fall classes ( 9 credits) would be a good idea if it means making my course load more sparse/spread out. I always figured they preferred students who took 2 years of just Fall/Winter credits.

Also, do you think it would be a better idea for me to stay behind a year and get my GPA up or apply to American schools were I might (not really sure if it actually less competitive) have a better shot of getting in by next fall?

[Rehab4Life]

1 hour ago, HopingForPhys said:

Thanks for the response. Do you think taking 3 extra fall classes ( 9 credits) would be a good idea if it means making my course load more sparse/spread out. I always figured they preferred students who took 2 years of just Fall/Winter credits.

Also, do you think it would be a better idea for me to stay behind a year and get my GPA up or apply to American schools were I might (not really sure if it actually less competitive) have a better shot of getting in by next fall?

If taking the courses will bump up your sGPA so that it will be competitive with most schools (3.82+/4.0), then it's worth it. They don't care if it's spread out or not, they just calculate based on your most recent 10 full courses (most schools). If taking those courses won't bump up your GPA enough, then you can take more courses; otherwise, it's kind of pointless to take more courses unless there's specific courses you need. If you can't do much more to your sGPA, then Queen's / the U.S. may be your best chance.

[HopingForPhys]

48 minutes ago, Rehab4Life said:

If taking the courses will bump up your sGPA so that it will be competitive with most schools (3.82+/4.0), then it's worth it. They don't care if it's spread out or not, they just calculate based on your most recent 10 full courses (most schools). If taking those courses won't bump up your GPA enough, then you can take more courses; otherwise, it's kind of pointless to take more courses unless there's specific courses you need. If you can't do much more to your sGPA, then Queen's / the U.S. may be your best chance.

Thanks! Just a few questions.

What do you mean by last 10 full courses. At York, there are 3 credit (half year) and 6 credit (full year) courses. Does this mean they don't look at the 3 credit courses?

Also, I'm worried about another thing since I've graduated already. I thought that after you graduate, your courses are locked to the program. If I take 3-4 extra courses now as a non-major (or w/e it's called), will the last 10 full courses/last 60 credit include those courses from prior to graduation?

[Rehab4Life]

York 3 credit (half year course) = 0.5

york 6 credit (full year course) = 1.0

So sub-GPA is based on your most recent completed 20 3-credit courses [60 credits] (or 10 6-credit courses - same thing). Some schools use 3/6, some use 0.5/1, and some use others.

The courses that you completed for your degree won't change. I guess you could say they're locked in that sense, but that doesn't matter - sGPA is simply based on your most recent competed 60 credits, no matter if they were major or non-major courses. So for example, if you complete three half year courses this Fall (9 credits), then the oldest 9 credits within your recent 60 will get bumped out. Then you recalculate with those bumped out and the newer 9 in. So if those old courses are low marks, you can bump them out. It's a bigger issue if there are low grades that fall within the middle of your 60 credits! 

[HopefulPT95]

Just wanted to chime in here! Look at each school individually that you're interested in. They all looks at things differently. Also, I'm not certain, but look into if grades after undergrad count, as I seem to remember 2 Ontario schools (queens and western maybe?) who say they only consider undergraduate grades and no other courses when determining sgpa. So i dont know if takin more courses would change your sgpa if you've already technically graduated.

 

Also, calculate your sgpa! If your cgpa for olsas is a 3.786 your sgpa may be even higher. EX: its obviously different for everyone but I know that my sgpa was 3.93 and cgpa was only a 3.8. 

In terms of US programs, check if they're accredited in Canada before applying there if your goal is to move back to Canada after. The Canadian Aliance of Physio has a list of all international programs. However, I personally would go to Australia before the US! Australia is well known for physiotherapy plus I know many of their programs are accredited here, they love canadians, and OZTREKK is even an application system like ORPAS to help Canadians apply to those Australian programs! Not to mention the Australian $ and Canadian are very close or at par almost and American exchange rate might hurt the bank more right now. I have heard of a few people who have went to Australia for physio and now work in my hometown. But there is tons of international options if you are super serious about physo! Along with Australia I knew Ireland has educated physios who are working in Canada now too but there are some very good(and accredited) US programs! 

 

Lots to look into, figure out, and do but if you put your heart into it you will make it happen! Best of luck!!

[HopingForPhys]

Damn, hearing that Queen and Western are not accepting non-undergraduate courses was a real dagger in my hopes. Not sure if starting a new program and stopping midway is even possible.

I'm not sure how every school looks at SGPA. But my 3.786 GPA is for my last 60 credits. I'm wiling to stay back a year if it means getting my GPA up and applying to a Canadian school. If I get a 4.0 on all courses this fall, I would bring my SGPA up to 3.811 (still not good enough for most schools, would have to stay back). 

Thank you for your help!

[PT2018Hopeful]

7 hours ago, HopingForPhys said:

Damn, hearing that Queen and Western are not accepting non-undergraduate courses was a real dagger in my hopes. Not sure if starting a new program and stopping midway is even possible.

I'm not sure how every school looks at SGPA. But my 3.786 GPA is for my last 60 credits. I'm wiling to stay back a year if it means getting my GPA up and applying to a Canadian school. If I get a 4.0 on all courses this fall, I would bring my CGPA up to 3.811 (still not good enough for most schools, would have to stay back). 

Thank you for your help!

Why do you need to get your cGPA up? Mine is only around 3.7 but my sGPA is 3.91 which got me into UWO and interviewed at both Mac/UofT. 

[PTwinterlo]

8 hours ago, HopingForPhys said:

Damn, hearing that Queen and Western are not accepting non-undergraduate courses was a real dagger in my hopes. Not sure if starting a new program and stopping midway is even possible.

I'm not sure how every school looks at SGPA. But my 3.786 GPA is for my last 60 credits. I'm wiling to stay back a year if it means getting my GPA up and applying to a Canadian school. If I get a 4.0 on all courses this fall, I would bring my CGPA up to 3.811 (still not good enough for most schools, would have to stay back). 

Thank you for your help!

Okay so I just want to clarify! I'm almost certain that western, Mac, u of t and queens all accept undergraduate level courses regardless of whether they are completing during or after your degree. The distinction is that they don't accept some community college courses (ie non- university courses) and they don't accept graduate level courses when determining sgpa.  So it doesn't matter that you've graduated with a bachelors degree. You can still take undergraduate level courses that will affect your sgpa. It's totally worth it to look at your last 20 courses and see what would happen to your sgpa if you knocked 3 courses off the end and took easy undergrad electives (ideally getting excellent marks). So if you take 3 courses this fall it will affect your sgpa for the upcoming application round. If you aren't sure the fall courses will bring your sgpa up high enough, you can also continue to take more courses for the winter semester in preparation of applying for the following year. they will accept courses that are completed over the summer as well. And like I said they can be online electives --- just make sure they are undergraduate university level courses. 

[HopingForPhys]

3 hours ago, PT2018Hopeful said:

Why do you need to get your cGPA up? Mine is only around 3.7 but my sGPA is 3.91 which got me into UWO and interviewed at both Mac/UofT. 

Woops, sorry I meant SGPA.

[turquoisemy]

3 hours ago, PTwinterlo said:

Okay so I just want to clarify! I'm almost certain that western, Mac, u of t and queens all accept undergraduate level courses regardless of whether they are completing during or after your degree. The distinction is that they don't accept some community college courses (ie non- university courses) and they don't accept graduate level courses when determining sgpa.  So it doesn't matter that you've graduated with a bachelors degree. You can still take undergraduate level courses that will affect your sgpa. It's totally worth it to look at your last 20 courses and see what would happen to your sgpa if you knocked 3 courses off the end and took easy undergrad electives (ideally getting excellent marks). So if you take 3 courses this fall it will affect your sgpa for the upcoming application round. If you aren't sure the fall courses will bring your sgpa up high enough, you can also continue to take more courses for the winter semester in preparation of applying for the following year. they will accept courses that are completed over the summer as well. And like I said they can be online electives --- just make sure they are undergraduate university level courses. 

Totally agree! You can take those continuing education course (like from Ryerson's Chang School of Continuing Education). I had to upgrade my sGPA as well, but I was worried they won't take my upgraded courses because whatever reason, so I enrolled in another degree program and only took senior level course (UOFT requires the upgrade courses to be senior level). Since you already have a degree, it won't jeopardize your application. Let me know if you have any questions and best of luck  

[HopingForPhys]

Sorry guys, I have a few questions. Right now I'm in a pickle as a graduated student.

I'm not sure if I should return this fall as a continuing non-degree undergrad student or with a new undergrad program to boost my gpa. If I start a new program, I'll be eligible for OSAP but I won't finish the new degree. Do schools take this in to consideration? Will they be satisfied with my previous degree?

My other problem is that KINE courses will be reserved regardless of I'm non-degree or new degree. I feel like the Grad schools won't be happy with me taking a bunch of dinky biology or econ courses. Also, I didn't do that good in my core KINE courses(B+ish) to begin with. I'm hoping they look past that. Do you think I should retake courses like anatomy or physiology?

[HopingForPhys]

17 hours ago, Rehab4Life said:

York 3 credit (half year course) = 0.5

york 6 credit (full year course) = 1.0

So sub-GPA is based on your most recent completed 20 3-credit courses [60 credits] (or 10 6-credit courses - same thing). Some schools use 3/6, some use 0.5/1, and some use others.

The courses that you completed for your degree won't change. I guess you could say they're locked in that sense, but that doesn't matter - sGPA is simply based on your most recent competed 60 credits, no matter if they were major or non-major courses. So for example, if you complete three half year courses this Fall (9 credits), then the oldest 9 credits within your recent 60 will get bumped out. Then you recalculate with those bumped out and the newer 9 in. So if those old courses are low marks, you can bump them out. It's a bigger issue if there are low grades that fall within the middle of your 60 credits! 

Thanks for the explanation. Now, what if I wasn't a non-major but instead I started a new major to add a few courses (New programs are eligible for OSAP). Would the last 60 credits span across both the old degree and the new degree?

[Rehab4Life]

48 minutes ago, HopingForPhys said:

Sorry guys, I have a few questions. Right now I'm in a pickle as a graduated student.

I'm not sure if I should return this fall as a continuing non-degree undergrad student or with a new undergrad program to boost my gpa. If I start a new program, I'll be eligible for OSAP but I won't finish the new degree. Do schools take this in to consideration? Will they be satisfied with my previous degree?

My other problem is that KINE courses will be reserved regardless of I'm non-degree or new degree. I feel like the Grad schools won't be happy with me taking a bunch of dinky biology or econ courses. Also, I didn't do that good in my core KINE courses(B+ish) to begin with. I'm hoping they look past that. Do you think I should retake courses like anatomy or physiology?

A lot of students applying to rehab sciences are graduated students (as in competed their degree and received their diploma). Don't worry about that. If you are returning in the Fall to boost your GPA, simply return as a non-degree student. The schools don't give preference to certain degrees. They just check for prerequisites and calculate your sGPA and/or cGPA. The schools consider all course work, degree and non-degree, unless stated otherwise. Someone's comments above were a little confusing. Graduate-level work and non-academic courses are not counted. Then there's schools like UBC who look at senior level courses only. I believe U of T mentions that they like senior level courses, but I'm pretty sure they calculate it the same as Western/Mac/Queen's. And some schools have minimum grade requirements for prerequisite courses too; check the school websites for detailed info. So basically, you should be fine with lower level courses, except for schools like UBC that state otherwise. It doesn't matter what your KINE marks are, as long as you meet the sGPA and/or cGPA cutoff(s). 300/400 level courses are usually more interesting to be honest, but also tend to be more difficult. 

If you have school-specific questions, I would encourage you to call them and get information directly from their departments.

[PTapplicant2017]

19 hours ago, HopingForPhys said:

Thanks for the response. Do you think taking 3 extra fall classes ( 9 credits) would be a good idea if it means making my course load more sparse/spread out. I always figured they preferred students who took 2 years of just Fall/Winter credits.

Also, do you think it would be a better idea for me to stay behind a year and get my GPA up or apply to American schools were I might (not really sure if it actually less competitive) have a better shot of getting in by next fall?

As far as I know, course load doesn't matter. Obviously you probably don't want to take 7 years to complete an undergraduate but since you've already graduated I don't think it really matters that much. That's completely up to you if you want to go international or stay as a domestic in Canada. Keep in mind, international tuition fees are insane compared to staying in Canada as a domestic student, so if money is an issue or you plan on coming back to Canada after you graduate (and need to pay off all that debt) I would recommend focusing on Canadian PT schools first. Also in the states they have DPT programs which also take longer than the MSc programs in Canada (i.e. more $$$$$$)

[HopingForPhys]

16 minutes ago, PTapplicant2017 said:

As far as I know, course load doesn't matter. Obviously you probably don't want to take 7 years to complete an undergraduate but since you've already graduated I don't think it really matters that much. That's completely up to you if you want to go international or stay as a domestic in Canada. Keep in mind, international tuition fees are insane compared to staying in Canada as a domestic student, so if money is an issue or you plan on coming back to Canada after you graduate (and need to pay off all that debt) I would recommend focusing on Canadian PT schools first. Also in the states they have DPT programs which also take longer than the MSc programs in Canada (i.e. more $$$$$$)

What's the yearly tuition cost of an average american program for Canadian students?

[HopingForPhys]

22 minutes ago, Rehab4Life said:

A lot of students applying to rehab sciences are graduated students (as in competed their degree and received their diploma). Don't worry about that. If you are returning in the Fall to boost your GPA, simply return as a non-degree student. The schools don't give preference to certain degrees. They just check for prerequisites and calculate your sGPA and/or cGPA. The schools consider all course work, degree and non-degree, unless stated otherwise. Someone's comments above were a little confusing. Graduate-level work and non-academic courses are not counted. Then there's schools like UBC who look at senior level courses only. I believe U of T mentions that they like senior level courses, but I'm pretty sure they calculate it the same as Western/Mac/Queen's. And some schools have minimum grade requirements for prerequisite courses too; check the school websites for detailed info. So basically, you should be fine with lower level courses, except for schools like UBC that state otherwise. It doesn't matter what your KINE marks are, as long as you meet the sGPA and/or cGPA cutoff(s). 300/400 level courses are usually more interesting to be honest, but also tend to be more difficult. 

If you have school-specific questions, I would encourage you to call them and get information directly from their departments.

What if I return as a new degree student (since it's eligible for OSAP). Would they still look at the last 60?

[Rehab4Life]

20 minutes ago, HopingForPhys said:

What if I return as a new degree student (since it's eligible for OSAP). Would they still look at the last 60?

Yes, any undergraduate level academic course work will be looked at. I personally wouldn't do that because it looks sketchy. Also, although you may get some OSAP money as degree, you might end up paying a lot more tuition versus a few courses. 

[HopingForPhys]

3 hours ago, Rehab4Life said:

Yes, any undergraduate level academic course work will be looked at. I personally wouldn't do that because it looks sketchy. Also, although you may get some OSAP money as degree, you might end up paying a lot more tuition versus a few courses. 

Why would I have to pay more tuition for new program, can't I just take the courses I need?

Also, are there OSAP grants for MPT programs?

[Rehab4Life]

It would depend on the school and program. My kin program tuition was based on status, not per course. 

Yes, OSAP is available for graduate programs.

[Isthiswhat]

Hi there! Just wanted to share my perspective. I'm a student at U of T PT. I was also a graduated student and applied to do a second undergrad in order to get the prerequisites I needed to apply to Queens. I got in to a few schools after the first year of the second degree and "abandoned" it to finish PT school. 

 

Personally, I took a full course load, but I think that's up to your discretion!

[Isthiswhat]

18 hours ago, Rehab4Life said:

Yes, any undergraduate level academic course work will be looked at. I personally wouldn't do that because it looks sketchy. Also, although you may get some OSAP money as degree, you might end up paying a lot more tuition versus a few courses. 

Hi, I disagree with the sketchy part! I did that and got into all of the schools that I applied to. 

[PT2018Hopeful]

18 minutes ago, Isthiswhat said:

Hi, I disagree with the sketchy part! I did that and got into all of the schools that I applied to. 

Agreed. They don't care how you take the courses they look at, nor what courses you took. 

[HopingForPhys]

4 hours ago, Isthiswhat said:

Hi there! Just wanted to share my perspective. I'm a student at U of T PT. I was also a graduated student and applied to do a second undergrad in order to get the prerequisites I needed to apply to Queens. I got in to a few schools after the first year of the second degree and "abandoned" it to finish PT school. 

 

Personally, I took a full course load, but I think that's up to your discretion!

Thanks a lot this is really assuring as I'm planning to abandon this new undergrad degree as well. BTW, what major did you take the first and second time around? Should it be closely related to the material? So Biology ?

Also, were you eligible for OSAP when you came back for the first year?