Best plan of attack to obtain basic science experience as a non-trad

[canucks_14]

Hi so in the last year I have absolutely fallen in love with my  science coursework. I had been doing psych, general health sci/epidemi, and other elective type stuff for a few semesters as I was doing a psychology degree. But after doing a biopsych course with an amazing prof, I decided to switch to biology and I hadn't done these type of courses in 6ish years. Anyways I'm doing really well learning the material and I want to go a step further and get involved with research. I'm older so I know what my career plans are. I absolutely want research to be a strong part of my life. 

I'd love to do bench research at a medical school. I'm in 4th year so I'm going to be done my degree in April. But so far I've only done one semester of bio lab and one semester chem lab and that's it. 

Also is there any use for math in a wet lab? I'm taking multivariable calculus and matrix algebra in the fall so I'm wondering if any skills or applications from this coursework can provide any value to any investigator and maybe make up for my lack of organic chem labs, physics labs, and molecular bio labs. I did very briefly volunteer in a wet lab for 3 months 6 years ago but I can't even use it as a reference because my supervisor said he didn't know me well enough to provide it (he was a pretty smart serious meticulous guy) and I can't go back because the team and PI no longer work at that lab. But it was different before. I was 19 I didn't have the right attitude and I was checking off a box. Now I'm older and I want to contribute to science and innovation as a career. 

My plan was to finish my current 5 courses and then start contacting Pis in august. But I'm just wondering what is the best plan? I might be moving to the US next summer too so waiting until December to contact them makes me feel too idle. Also I need to do a directed studies course to graduate, so it'd be worthwhile to have skills and maybe a prof I know, before my last semester so that my project can be of higher quality. So I would love to get experience asap. If anyone knows specifics about Vancouver that'd be great. 

I contacted 3 researchers whose work I was enamoured with but 2 didn't get back and one said no such opportunity exists. 

At what point should I contact PIs given my case and timeline? And what should I do both short term and long term to find research experience. I'm actually putting off my med school application to get preferably 2 years of research experience before I apply (and getting my GPA up too isn't so bad either). My interest is not too specific, I just absolutely want to be doing basic science research. 

 

Also I do have a haphazard transcript and I don't have a 3.8 GPA and never will (cumulative). But I could have an 85 percent GPA. At about 80 percent or around there right now. 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Sorry I'm sort of confused by your situation. So right now you are trying to get into a research program after your undergrad? The most obvious path to that would be to do a Master's program. With your grades, I would apply broadly across the country but you should land up with a position somewhere.

What I don't understand is that you also mention you will be moving to the US next year? What exactly is your plan?

[canucks_14]

No I'm not going to grad school anytime soon because I need to do more undergrad to change my GPA first. I'm hoping to either start a 2nd undergrad or a postbacc next summer, or if I could find a paid research assistant position I may consider doing that full time and just supplementing with some night courses or online courses in that year. 

Right now all im trying to do is volunteer in a wet lab somewhere to get undergraduate research experience during my 2nd bachelors/postbacc. I know I can email and knock on doors but just thought I'd provide some info in the hopes of someone experienced providing more info on the optimal way of finding a position. 

[bearded frog]

Look for self-directed research courses or thesis courses in the undergrad calendar. Reach out to profs you like and ask them who they suggest working with.

[ballsortahard]

There are better people on this forum to explain how to get a research position. I would like to add that I am currently doing health science research and have a math background like you (2 generic calc and one stats classes, multivariate calc, Linear algebra (which you've called matrix algebra), Differential equations, control systems, and Numerical methods) personally I have found almost no direct befits though there are probably some indirect benefits that come from being more comfortable with math than an average summer student (i.e. not messing up serial dilutions or knowing where a coefficient of determination comes from). That being said, not being comfortable in organic chemistry or molecular biology is definitely not going to be as big an issue as I think you think it will be, the area of research is usually so specific the background knowledge you need can only be found in pubmed and won't be taught in a intro science class (sure you will have to google what a few words mean but big deal).

 

Also 

On 6/22/2017 at 1:20 PM, canucks_14 said:

No I'm not going to grad school anytime soon because I need to do more undergrad to change my GPA first. I'm hoping to either start a 2nd undergrad or a postbacc next summer, or if I could find a paid research assistant position I may consider doing that full time and just supplementing with some night courses or online courses in that year. 

Can't you increase your GPA with grad school?

[Bede]

What is your GPA now? Unless it's really bad, I wouldn't go back to do more courses to raise your GPA- I'd start looking into doing more research. A lot of programs are far more dependent on a potential supervisor telling the department that they want you than you just sending in an application. I think most competitive schools want a 75% average (whatever that is in GPA), but some of the smaller schools are just happy to get a motivated MSc student. Once you're a good MSc student a LOT of opportunities will open up for a PhD once people realize you can work independently and publish research. 

I was a terrible undergrad but managed to convince someone to take me on as a MSc then PhD student. I did very well in those programs and got a couple decent fellowships afterwards. 

[canucks_14]

ladies and gents its all good research career is budding as we speak. but for the more experienced, what does the author order generally indicate? 1st author means? 2nd....., 3rd-x, and I cant help but wonder what does the last author on the list of researchers that published the article indicate?

 

 

also ballsortahard, linear algebra is a component of matrices in space if you think about the big picture elucidation! wowzers.

 

also everyone undergrad GPA is the single greatest indicator of potential for medical school applications.

[ExercMed]

3 hours ago, canucks_14 said:

ladies and gents its all good research career is budding as we speak. but for the more experienced, what does the author order generally indicate? 1st author means? 2nd....., 3rd-x, and I cant help but wonder what does the last author on the list of researchers that published the article indicate?

Author order is generally based on contribution to the work. If you go to the end of a manuscript you will see a contributions section where it outlines what every author did in the process. Funnily enough, the last author is the senior author (the lab PI). The 1st author should be involved in almost every aspect of the study (from conception to data collection/analysis and writing the manuscript). However, in the real wold, this isn't always the case. Authorship feuds can be a problem in labs. Additionally, sometimes PIs want to do all the writing of the manuscripts to keep their paper's consistent. 

[ballsortahard]

On 8/7/2017 at 2:52 PM, canucks_14 said:

also ballsortahard, linear algebra is a component of matrices in space if you think about the big picture elucidation! wowzers.

I read this three times and don't know why you're telling me this.

[canucks_14]

in one of your previous rants on august 4th, you tried to correct me when in fact you were / r either unaware or disingenuous

[Bede]

canucks,

Sorry I'm having some problems following your posts and what you're trying to accomplish. Do you want to do a career in research or do some research to make you more competitive for medical school? If the former, than don't waste your time trying to raise your GPA- get to know PI's, visit labs and get into any MSc program that interests you. From my experience, it was really helpful to know someone to act as your potential supervisor that can walk you application into admissions and insist that they want you. Because you're enthusiastic, you probably have a good shot and being a productive MSc student and can leverage that into a successful PhD application. 

PS. Just a gentle nudge and constructive criticism: you may want to work on your written communication skills. I know fora are informal, but I had quite a bit of difficulty figuring out what you are trying to do. 

[canucks_14]

Where are you at in your career?

[adhominem]

Bede mentioned that they did a PhD in their above comment, and said something about getting a couple fellowships afterwards. They're probably a post-doc right now I would guess... 

I have to agree with Bede and other people commenting here in that I am lost about what you're actually trying to accomplish. 

Are you doing research to help you get into medicine? Or are you hoping to go on to complete a PhD and do biomedical research as a career? Or, are you hoping to complete an MD/PhD program? 

On 8/7/2017 at 2:52 PM, canucks_14 said:

also everyone undergrad GPA is the single greatest indicator of potential for medical school applications.

Even if you wanted to argue this is the case, admissions selection criteria across the country suggest otherwise. GPA is a fairly substantial component, but doesn't count for as much as extracurriculars at many schools.

[Bede]

On 9/25/2017 at 4:25 AM, canucks_14 said:

Where are you at in your career?

I assume that this question is directed at me.

I'm a post doc and trying my best to avoid a faculty position

[canucks_14]

9 hours ago, Bede said:

I assume that this question is directed at me.

I'm a post doc and trying my best to avoid a faculty position

Hahaha why don't you want to be faculty? 

[Bede]

6 hours ago, canucks_14 said:

Hahaha why don't you want to be faculty? 

Because it's a terrible job. Academia is my second career- I still do my first part time. I love the intellectual challenge of science, but the negatives far out-weight the positives IMO. The pay as a prof is barely better than a high school teacher, but with essentially no vacation. The stress involved in running a lab and the risk that you run out of funding and need to lay everyone off is constantly over your head. There is a very real risk that you will post doc forever because of the lack of jobs or that your tenure will be denied because you simply weren't productive enough-- publish or perish. I've done well in academia but I will never leave my first career to advance to faculty. 

[canucks_14]

Yeah it's tough. I can see how pressure would stifle the creativity of some for sure.