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Ostracized

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  1. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Well, it was with the NDEB so maybe not unexpected.
  2. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    I applied for a job this week and was told that there were 175 other applicants.
  3. I never joined the military but I believe you start in the $130-140k range and after some promotions can get in the high $1XX,000 range. The pay is competitive in itself, but the really good deal is if you sign on in first year dental school. Then you get all your tuition paid, a very decent salary while in school (I think in the range of $70,000) and some other bonuses. Signing up in first year is like getting a $400,000 sign up bonus.
  4. I do occasional work in remote northern Ontario on a salaried basis. The money is good for me as an associate working in Toronto full time, but for others it wouldn't be seen as that high. Mostly I enjoy the work and find it rewarding. Now, regarding a new grad associate making $300K+ in northern Canada? I'm a bit skeptical though I won't go so far as to say it is impossible. I know that, even under ideal circumstance (very high patient load) I probably would max out at $250,000. And no, I don't earn that much. That's just what I would consider my ideal income under normal circumstances. Now, I could perhaps earn more than that, but there would have to be some combination of: -High procedure fees -Longer than 40 hours per week -An above average (>40%) cut of production. In order to earn $400,000 I'd need to bill $4000 per day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. I'd be surprised if I billed more than $4000 even once or twice a year!
  5. The US has been raising their rates as well so I wouldn’t expect CDN to skyrocket.
  6. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Well that’s a slight exaggeration but it’s true that many Canadian school are severely lacking in clinical experience. And that’s a separate but related issue. After you graduate you NEED a year or two (or more!) of clinical learning before you are really a capable dentist. That means you need a) a good mentor to help you when you get stuck and b) lots of patients to practice on. I’m 6 years out of school and I’m still learning all the time and still finding knowledge gaps more than I’d want to admit. So another concern for new grads in our increasingly cut-throat system is lack of clinical growth, on top of financial concerns.
  7. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    It’s hard for me to give advice on this matter with great confidence because I am only one dentist, working in a terrible geographic location. Although I keep as well informed as I can, most of what I can convey at an individual level is anecdotal (either of myself or colleagues). I’m hesitant to recommend dentistry even at the prices that are being charged for tuition by all but perhaps the least expensive Canadian schools. Why? Because if you have the aptitude to gain admission to a Canadian dental school, you have the aptitude to consider other careers with comparable lifetime earnings (adjusted for student debt) and far lower financial risk. Anyway I’m a pessimist. I’m sure there are younger dentists still making bank in this country, even in saturated areas. I myself am doing fairly well, and I probably earn more than most or all of my friends (with the exception perhaps of some lawyers). But I work 5+ days a week and my time off is spent working in northern Canada a couple weeks at a time. Boy, I’d love to get ‘paid vacation’ some day!
  8. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Australia was smart when it came to this dental school equivalency. They opened up dozens of spots in each school (perhaps 100-200 spots per year across the country) for Canadian students. Most of whom will return to Canada after. How many Australian students are studying dentistry in Canada? I’d be really surprised if there were even 5 students each year. We got played.
  9. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    The government has to pay to train doctors in residency, and that's incredibly expensive. There are barely enough residency spots for our own grads. Then they have to pay them once they are out.
  10. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    If the ODA gets to meet with Ford or the health minister, they are going to discuss an actual realistic goal - getting social assistance dentistry reimbursement rates that don't end up actually costing the dentist money to see the patient. I know this because I am part of the ODA political action committee. Besides, the Ontario government has no mandate over federal licensing issues. I believe strongly that in the next decade the major shift that will occur will be an end to the bottomless pit of money supplied to dental students by the banks. When I got my loan 10 years ago the maximum amount you could get was $150K. And that was when the number of new dentists each year was 40% lower than it is now. Now the loans are, what, $275K? At that rate is it unreasonable to assume you'll need $400K or even $500K to study dentistry in Canada 10 years from now? No bank is going to give a collateral-free loan for $500K to a 21 year-old with no credit history when there's a good chance that they won't even break 6-figure income in their first few years of work.
  11. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    It’s unlikely that this will change due to government intervention. The politics are not with dentists. The public views dentists as greedy, cheating fat-cats, and that won’t change. We will not get sympathy under any circumstances. The only argument we have to make is one of quality patient care (competition leads to unscrupulous behavior). On the other hand, from the government’s point of view they are both letting immigrants practice their chosen profession and increasing access to care. It’s politically expedient for any government to continue this process. There’s no real discussion among the dental associations about stopping it because their lobbyists know better.
  12. Ostracized

    The slow decay of dentistry

    There is a separate method for foreign trained specialists to become licensed in Canada. The DSKCE which you can see on that NDEB link.
  13. Ostracized

    how useful is the ODA memership?

    Is that $220 for all 4 years? If so I’d say do it. They offer a lot of different programs during dental school.
  14. Do a PhD in dental biomaterials and become a professor. It’s not a clinical pathway but it’s an option.
  15. Ostracized

    Dental education in Canada

    So concern yourself with accreditation, not reputation. School reputation is surprisingly unimportant in being employed as a dentist. Just look at how many dentists trained in developing countries are working in Canada.
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