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donnadee

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Everything posted by donnadee

  1. I beg to differ..i think it is already becoming challenging to regulate the dental marketplace and with new ODA numbers not showing any improvement but rather continuing decline in incomes, the effect is trickling down through the entire dental industry...wages of hygienists are expected to further drop due to decline in dental practice incomes...in this sort of a supply driven market, I fear that there is an increasing risk of greater investment into induction of demand from the dentists (e.g. free whitening, recall exams, shady practices e.t.c) , especially if their margins are being cut down...this is just how the private market functions....this is slowly eroding the profession and so although increased debt may seem as an individual problem, it is more so a collective issue as there are a lot more US grads entering into the Canadian marketplace than those from within Canada. I cant see how its ok for US debt to guide clinical decisions in Canada as that is what may very well end up happening.
  2. putting all this into perspective, it almost makes good sense to reconsider US-Can reciprocal agreement, not only because of the fact that dentists are more than readily available but because putting out a dentist into a private market with close to a $1 mill debt is going to erode the profession very quickly...
  3. its not easy guys..nobody wants to go through 8 years of schooling only to have to sacrifice important things such as lifestyle, having the liberty to decide where to live and work. it is important to realize that happiness is not only how much you earn but a combination of multiple things. i know of countless dentists working in remote locations who are very unhappy with their lifestyle, location, having to give up relationships just for having an improved income. i know of others who have sacrificed income by working within cities but are still happy and satisfied in their decision...in the end, its easier said than done when we say that we are willing to move far up norh or live in a remote location...that lifestyle is not suited for everyone and may also not appeal to everyone entering into dentirsty now adays...therefore, it is still equally important for those entering into the profession or deciding to do so to look introspectively into it, and seeing whether they can realistically see themselves working in a remote location..if the answer is no, and they still want to continue to enjoy an income that dentists were once afforded even living in major cities, then dentistry maynot be what it once was. however, using income and lifestyle alone are still poor means of deciding a pick on which profession to go to so actual interest plays a big role, especially for a field as specialized as dentistry...my recommendation to new entrants would be to find a dentist in a big city and another in a small rural community and shadow them to see if the lifestyle suits you or not.
  4. true..the other thing is referrals though. you guys operate with high fee procedures mostly whereas im assuming, in the day of a gp's practice, one'd probably be doing mostly resto, exos and some prostho with occasional high billing procedures so im guessing thats the reason its probably much harder to almost impossible to bill $5000 per day as a gp associate
  5. sorry, i was referring to gp surgical procedures..as omfs, you guys bill much higher due to different fee rates. i was wondering about these procedures (exo, sinus, perio) from a gp fee rate perspective.
  6. considering that you have a full and busy patient base, and still have to pay a considerable amount of lab fees for crown, bridge and prostho makes me wonder if its even possible for associates to net $200K as some rural practices state...if one does a lot of resto and surgery, are high billings possible?
  7. hmm i didnt know that..so what would happen in such a case?? would entry into gpr be based on gpa/board scores and references only?
  8. thanks for the replies. does anyone know if uoft gives out class ranks to its students? is it possible to get that info?
  9. kk im bumping this! can any 4th yrs who got in please please reply! thanks! also, contach and other US students, can you please share your knowledge about GPR requirements in the US (specifically, grades vs boards, what matters more?). thanks a lot!
  10. For those of you here who have or doing a GPR at a canadian school, i needed some advice: I have tried searching this but am unable to find out what the grades requirements are like for GPRs at canadian schools. What type of ecs and grades would be needed for someone planning on doing a GPR? thanks
  11. you're missing the point there..the reason i brought up that example is because that is the sort of situation each dentist has to face everyday....and when those in the medical profession are thrown into a situation where they're not being rewarded (financially) for the work and time they're putting in, they're also refusing to take on that work..its not very different you see.
  12. The business part of the profession does indeed cause delay/refusal of care. Dont understand how you consider "necessity" or "value" as being linked to finances though. One may still need care but may not be able to afford it is true but to say that necessity only exists if one can financially afford care is wrong. Dentists, privately, have still done a lot on their own to offer care to those that need it but maynot be able to afford it. there're still several who offer pro-bono and monthly payment plans to help with the ability to pay for care. you see, as a physician, you dont have to be personally accountable to providing free care as your income isnt linked to care but to put that onus on another profession meeting major hurdles to the inclusion of care under the public plans is incorrect..a similar example to that is seen even in medicine where family docs in busy areas stop accepting patients once their cap is reached... The major hurdle preventing the inclusion of elective dental care under the public health plan is the increasing/ballooning healthcare budget..to not consider that as part of the equation is unjust. There is a separate specialty in dentistry dedicated to public dental health and that is the objective of those who practice it from a policy/clinical practice perspective..however, it is sad to say that there is not enough funding available to even improve research and clinical capabilities with regards to dental policy because it only meets deaf ears.
  13. wow a lot of misconceptions here: "cosmetics", "financial transaction", "elective"...sad to see that the budding pre-meds see it as that...while dental "care" to some does indeed seem elective/cosmetic, one would be too naive to say that dental health should be elective...the thing with dental care is that patients only realize the need when they have a painful abscess or tooth that is very sensitive..what most dont realize is that abscess or sensitivity could have very well been prevented in the first place...nevertheless its the patients that come in pain to a dentist and are provided relief through the procedure that truly begin to understand the value of dental care..
  14. i hate to come in and burst anyone's dreams here but this reply maybe too overly optimistic. anyone going in with a 400-500K loan including rent and what not should know that an average dentist doesnt make double that of 120K...moreover, for someone interested in eventually running their own practice..they should realize that practice prices have been going up by quite a lot due to high demand in the market by corporate dental chains and the average individual dentist is being outbid by the competition...overvalued practices in combination with real incomes going down for dentists is not a very optimistic outlook for the profession..some will obviously always make more than average but to start off in the profession with such a high debt does not put dentists in a good financial situation..before making such a big decision, i would talk to a bank or someone who knows the dental marketplace to see how long itd take you to payoff your student loan+practice loan..if it'd take 20-30 yrs, you should realistically ask yourself about wanting the career vs a family,house and life
  15. hey hansol, thanks for your input! another question: is it possible at all to incorporate as an associate? If so, above what income does it make sense (considering that there will be fees involved with incorp)? Finally, in your experience with dentists, is this form of employment common where an incorporated associate works for another practice? (say in areas where associates make enough to justify this) thanks!
  16. yeah its sky high saturated..no seriously though, any big city is, so calgary is still likely to be saturated if not as much as toronto, im assuming still is..edmonton is fine but city core still has enough dentists to support the available patient base. if you're willing to head away from the big cities, then you will be better off. but the harsh truth is, its easier said than done. living away from a big city has its own drawbacks so you have to make a compromise somewhere.
  17. aaron, can you define what sort of job needs to be compensated more than the other? what are the criterion for how a job should be compensated? isnt combined mental and physical effort not good enough a reason for a well compensated job?
  18. says the stay at home guy whos looking to get into med school..obviously...if you havent done dentistry, or for that matter any 8-5 constant manual dexterity work, then you dont know what you're talking about.
  19. is this a last minute decision to apply to dental school ?
  20. i thought communication was supposed to be a big part of "provider skill":confused: i guess he meant technical only.
  21. lol i doubt 700K in Fm is the norm just as 1-1.5mil as a GP dentist is not the norm..both numbers have been achieved but often require lots of dedication, hard work and in unfortunate cases, cutting corners.
  22. i know thats the reason why the gpa is given a boost. what im saying is that this is a means for aadsas to standardize the gpa of canadians heading south. if 80+ according to us standards is a 4.0, then clearly, canadian undergrad schools make it difficult to go higher than 3.7. despite that averages at canadian dental schools tend to be higher than their us counterparts. this situation extends beyond dentistry and is seen in other professions such as medicine as well where US entry gpas tend to be lower. i believe that there is actually an AADSAS document on dental schools which provides entry statistics of US and canadian schools. if you want to compare competition, that may give a good representation as it lists the number getting admission in comparison to number applying.
  23. also, most canadians, and at least every uoft applicant, who applies to states, first hand experiences grade inflation under the aadsas system. when i was considering US and ended up submitting my AADSAS application, my gpa received a very significant boost, almost by 0.2 to 0.3 so its incorrect to say that US dental schools entrance averages tend to be lower because of deflated entry gpas, in comparison to their Canadian counterparts. if that was the case, why would canadians heading south receive a boost on their gpa?
  24. lol if you're judging students "wealthiness" by what they bring to school, then think again...there are many that justify their buying decisions based on future earnings and so that does play into it as well..not saying that many are not from well off families, they're probably sons/daughters of educated professionals but what i said earlier does play a role..i have seen professional students justify their purchases like that.
  25. lol its really up to you to decide for yourself. I am a dental student and so what i say is not only based on hearsay but things i have looked into as well. Im not sure if you go to a dental school, but no dental student will be able to provide you with a comparison of canada vs US as there are very few transfers...i do believe that there was one transfer from US, alcohulk, or something like who may have posted some stuff on the comparison of education standards in US vs Canada. if you want an idea of what canadian dental school experience is like, i can provide really good insight. school entrance gpa should not be discounted as lacking any importance, that much i can attest to. Canadian schools have excellent entry gpas and there is intense competition. Your rank is determined based on your performance relative to those around you. As far as going to a specialty program, again i have looked into this and its pretty well known that many harvard, penn grads end up entering into specialty programs. i myself have no interest in specialization so maybe koft will be a better insight for you on this end.
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