Jump to content
Premed 101 Forums


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Everclear

  1. The applications for the equivalency process was at unprecedented record numbers last year. https://ndeb-bned.ca/en/news/article/applications-rise “The NDEB has seen an unprecedented rise in applications in 2019, particularly for the Equivalency Process.” They are now developing a challenge exam for dental specialists. https://ndeb-bned.ca/en/news/article/ndeb-welcomes-new-director-examinations This might be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Oral surgeons and paediatric dentists putting patients into moderate-deep IV sedations, trained from unaccredited programs. Something is bound to go very very wrong. The sad thing is that ITDs already face discrimination when trying to find associate jobs. I can only imagine that the specialists would face similar discrimination as general dentists might not refer patients to them. This is sad because most ITDs are very well trained.
  2. There is no stigma for dentists that graduated abroad. US and Aus/NZ grads have very good accredited education which is typically clinically superior to Canadian grads. Most of the stigma surrounds ITDs who have taken the equivalency exams .
  3. Where does it say this? Edit: found it https://ndeb-bned.ca/en/news/article/first-international-predoctoral-dental-educational-program-granted-coda-accreditation
  4. It is about what school you went to. You need to be a graduate of an accredited school. Whether Australian/NZ and Irish school fit the bill is untested waters and likely something the individual state borads will determine. But graduates of unaccredited schools will not be able to get a US license unless they do a 2 year international dentist program at various US dental schools. This is the way it was in Canada before 2012. I don’t ever see the US changing to create a challenge exam to allow graduates from unaccredited programs to get licensed. I don’t think the US public would ever accept a challenge exam.
  5. US and Australian grads have on average much better clinical education upon graduation than Canadian grads. It’s not so much the clinical experience which I feel is an issue for dental schools in the third world, some have an insanely intensive clinical work load. The issue is the standard of work at which majority of dentists in these countries consider “Clinically acceptable”. This term shouldn’t be subjective but it is. I have no doubt that the quality of dental work in third world countries is lower because their dental cultural threshold of what they deem “Clinically acceptable” is lower. I think US, Australia, Korea, Germany and most first world countries have a similar standard to us. This is likely a result of the fact that dentistry in these countries are HIGHLY regulated so practicing dentists are held to a very very high standard clinically. Veering off course from this high standard will lead to lawsuits from patients and/or displince from regulating bodies. Now the question is if dental schools in developing nations also have a lower threshold of what they teach as “Clinically acceptable”? The students in these schools are taught by the very dentists that work in the country who are involved in the lower threshold of “Clinically acceptable” in private practice. But there no way to know without proper accreditation. And that’s the real issue, there’s no way to know.
  6. Not sure what you’re trying to say here with the 1 home run is better than 2 doubles comment. It does matter the amount of time you spend in dental school because time spent must have some correlation to quality of work and knowledge to safely treat patients, this is why you won’t find accredited dental schools which are 1-2 years in length. Anyway, I’m not saying that ITDs do bad work. I’m saying the system of accrediting their credentials is broken and insufficient to assure that the knowledge and skill of ITDs are on par with Canadian standards.
  7. I never said you were a bunch of quacks. The schools that international dentists graduate from are non-accrediated i.e a Canadian agency has not verified the robustness of the curriculum or how complete the education is and if it meets Canadian standards. Tell me what part of that statement is incorrect. “If spending 6 months of our lives on each exam is not sufficient for you, then I don’t know what is.” I don’t know, how about maybe completing a 4 year program at an accrediated school? Or at least 2 years? It doesn’t matter how long you study for an exam, I could study for my driving exam for 10 years but that doesn’t make me a formula one driver. What matters is the ability of the exams to accurately gauge the competency of dentists. I believe there is no way 3-4 exams can replace 4 years at an accredited program.
  8. It seems that way on paper but many dental clinics do not hire internationally trained dentists, so enrolling in the DDS program will certainly help “localize” your credentials and hence help you out getting a job greatly.
  9. Tax? The Over-saturation and destruction of a profession is ok because it means more tax dollars for the government? The increase in number of dentists does not mean more tax dollars, the amount of procedures done should be the same in a saturated market scenario. It just means a smaller piece of the pie for everyone, including yourself. The exams take a few hours. The time spent studying for it at home does not qualify as “training” or “dental school”. That is an absolutely ludicrous comparison.
  10. By the end of the 4 years of Dental School, most Canadian trained dentists are far behind clinically and theoretically compared to their Australian and American counterparts. Experience and education are almost exclusively what makes one a good practioner. So if the Canada does indeed want to invest in their best, brightest and highest caliber, then by your logic, they should exclude Canadian trained dentists from that list.
  11. The equivalency process is very very difficult. Only something like 1 in 5 who begin the equivalency process end with a license to practice. It takes on average 3-4 years. That’s 3-4 years of lost income and stress. Even after licensure, the hardship is not over. A lot of practices specifically do not hire Internationally Trained Dentists (dentists trained outside of Canada, US, Aus, NZ and Ireland). So even getting a job is not guaranteed.
  12. Do you know anyone outside the city taking home near that?
  13. Saw someone post this about dentistry in Brazil: In Brazil, they deregulated dental education and allowed as many private schools to pop up as they wanted to. All in the name of "access to care", "removing the barriers" and "social justice" of course. Now they proudly have about 245,000 dentists, or 15% of all the dental manpower in the world. As a result, there are more stray dogs roaming the streets in certain areas than dentists and this is not a job that is well regarded and pays well anymore. I, for one, came across a few Brazilian dentist desperados happy to work as lab technicians or assistants in Australia just to be able to buy themselves more time and get their foot in the door over here. All were as poor as church mice, I even rented my house to a couple of them. So much for "social justice". Canada will be next?
  14. You think this is good? All government programs have fees lower than the provincial fee guide. Some government programs (in Ontario) have fees where you get less than $40 for an extraction. The Assistant is $20/hr and the receptionist is $20/hr. So if you take 1hr to extract a tooth then you did it for free. Whats more worrying is that companies or employees may elect to waive dental insurance plans from their contracts thinking “meh we have government insurance”
  15. Have you looked at buying practices outside of Toronto? They are generally just as expensive. The “Toronto type” valuation of practices has spread to most of Canada.
  16. The reason practice ownership is next to impossible now is not because of the expansion of dental corps. But because of the increased dentist:population aided by the influx of ITDs. ITDs do not carry anywhere near the debt that Canadian/US/Aus/NZ grads do. This gives them more financial leverage in the eyes of the banks. Most ITDs, on average, seem to be more interested in owning (particularly multipractice ownership) than the average Canadian/US/Aus/NZ grad. Maybe because they’re typically older and have owned a practice in their home country? But the fact that they only have maybe 30-40k debt vs 250-500k debt that the Canadian/US/Aus/NZ grads have is a very understated advantage. No disrespect towards our ITD colleagues, their equivalency exams are tougher than the regular NDEB exams but they do have less liabilities in the eyes of the bank. I don’t understand the desire for Canadian/US to remain practicing in Canada under these current conditions. You make more as a dentist in the US period.
  17. We’ve had reciprocal agreements with the US many decades and decades before Corporate dentistry was a thing, heck probably even before specialities in dentistry or hygenists existed.
  18. Why was this decision made to put a nail in the coffin of Canadian dentistry? It’s perplexing- no other primary care profession allows graduates from non-accredited schools to practice their craft without at least some training in Canada. Not medicine, not pharmacy, not vets, not optometry, not chiropractors, not physiotherapists, not lawyers. A slap in the face is that none of this reciprocal, unlike the US or Australia where Canadians can practice there.
  19. Graduates of accredited degree programs and US+Aus+NZ+Ireland dentists. I don’t think the increase in the latter catageory is an issue because a good portion of those dentists take the NDEB as a backup. A large portion do just stay in the US. Source: https://ndeb-bned.ca/en/dental-programs/historical-pass-rates
  20. Internationally trained dentists certified almost equal Canadian graduates in 2018 491 Canadian graduates 320 Internationally trained dentists The number of new dentists has nearly doubled in 8 years Total certified in 2010: 664 Total certified in 2018: 1143 Dentistry in Canada will change immensely. Migration to the US seems like a more viable option each year.
  21. You are referring to the NDEB written exam like I am? Not the AFK or anything of that sort?
  22. Hi, I am writing the exam in March and was wondering how much non-dental material i.e biochemistry, head &neck anatomy, general pathology there is going to be in the exam. I looked at the contents on their website and there is certainly some of those non-dental topics listed in Booklet 1. Basically I am asking how much of NBDE part 1 material (from the US boards) I'll have to study? Examples of material include part 1 of decks, part 1 first aid and part 1 Mosby's.
  23. Correct me if I'm wrong but the NDEB and OSCE candidate numbers also include the international dentists from non-accredited schools that went through the NDEB equivalency process. Because on their site, it does indicate that the final step of the equivalency process includes the OSCE exam: http://www.ndeb.ca/nonaccredited Funny how the numbers really skyrocketed after 2011 (the year when foreign dentists were allowed to challenge for the boards).
  • Create New...