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FingersCrossedPls

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  1. I promise you this is not an ill-intended or malicious attack on your post, but an analysis of your response through the eyes and experience of someone else. "So yes, people admitted within separate groups got in on their own merit, but their self identification or proven identification with one group provided a massive boost." = So yes people got in on their own merit but really not all. Again, you seem to point towards successes being tied directly to race and not merit. "Most BSAP admits, if they were Asian or East Indian, simply would not have had a file review." --> 1. How on earth would you ever know if someone is Asian or East Indian solely based on their application (barring any dangerous presumptions based on name alone)? 2. Where on earth is the information that backs this claim coming from? Do you have some sort of secret stash of all of the credentials of every BSAP admit compared to every non-black applicant and admit? I truly do not understand how you, a doctor, can make these claims and synthesize this information with almost 0 stats to back it up. "and just mask society's issues by providing some good public PR 'look we are doing something'." --> If you think that BSAP or ISAP are publicity stunts I would hate to hear what you think about BLM protests and indigenous rights campaigns. These initiatives are changing the course of medicine, some people just cannot see that yet. "Of note, I received a full warning for my posts above for not creating a safe space for people of colour. While my posts are more centrist and even center right than left, and were critical of some aspects of BSAP, I do think warnings for slightly deviant political opinion on a premed forum is quite shocking." --> Some of the statements you have made have run deeper than what you claim to be 'political' and run more along the lines of anti-diversity and unknowingly offensive and/or discriminatory. It is not the job of POC to point out to you when you say something 'political' versus abrasive. That is a skill POC are brought up with when navigating a system designed against them and unfortunately a skill that many non-POC need to work hard to learn, but it is worth it. "I've privately helped countless students through PMs over the last 6 years of all backgrounds on this site. I think bullying people to accept a single narrative on any issue (excluding outright bullying or racism of course) is shocking. " --> In no way do I think you come across as someone who would reject help to anyone. I am sure you are a very helpful person. I am also truly sorry if you feel that you are being bullied as no one deserves to feel this way. One reason why I think many people are against your points is that there have been several BIPOC and allies in this thread explaining to you how what you have said is offensive, insensitive, and yes, not conducive to creating a safe space for POC, and it appears as though you have not exactly taken it to heart or attempted to hear and validate those experiences. Also as a side note to provide an example; this statement sounds very similar to the typical "I am not racist, I have black friends" comment that every black person has heard.
  2. Thank you for your allyship and thorough reflection of the issue, it means a lot to many BIPOC and is inspirational to many white allies and soon-to-be-allies. I think the self-conversation around privilege is needed to be had now more than ever, and I am very happy to see it taking hold. I myself have benefited greatly from privileges that fellow black peers have not (male privilege, cis-privilege etc.), but it doesn't make me any less black. It just irks me when I read comments from presumably non-black people about what they deem to be acceptable levels of struggle for other ethnic/racial groups to warrant the need for representation. Queer representation, indigenous representation (and until recently within the last couple decades, female representation) is greatly needed within science and medicine and I will be championing for those avenues as well. The idea that more for others means less for you is outdated, and I am glad there are people like you who are moving forward to change that. When UofT says they take a holistic approach, I fully believe them
  3. I agree as well. I just wanted to make it clear that the notion that all the BSAP applicants have low GPAs is false, and many BSAP students receive offers from multiple schools as a result of having great GPAs, ECs, Essays etc. I also believe that GPA does not have have a great deal to do with being a good doctor. As for the GPA “requirements” (ie. an actual competitive/ average successful gpa and not the 3.6 cut off for all applicants) being lower for BSAP students: that claim is still unfounded since UofT does not release these stats. If they are ever released and it does prove to be the case then I am absolutely willing to accept that. That being said, I’m sure there are several non-BSAP students with GPAs in the 3.7-3.8 region as well.
  4. I don’t know enough to give a whole history lecture on this topic but from microagressions to full on systemic racism almost every non-white group has faced the backlash of racist ideology on which many countries were built; Canada included. However, I would like to point out that Black people are still HUGELY underrepresented in medicine! This discussion surrounding whether or not Black people in Canada have been oppressed enough to deserve having a system in place to ensure that they can treat their own community is so strange to me. I’m not sure what the people on this thread (presumably white or non-black) would have liked to have happened to Black people in order for Black people to warrant this program, but I also probably don’t want to know. If any other ethnicity/race becomes significantly underrepresented I would truly hope they would do the same for them. It’s very clear on the website that there is no quota, so they must admit the candidates who they deem as a quality applicant through the program, and thus admitting more black students doesn’t suggest that seats are being taken away from more-qualified non-black students, but perhaps that this year there was many amazing black students. As a side note: white people have been getting advantages in STEM for a very long time (connections to the field, non-discriminatory questions during interviews, no subconscious prejudice) and the fact that BSAP and ISAP have been created to help lower these barriers is incredible. Unfortunately, many people (certainly not implying you because you seemed very respectful in your post) will always be upset to see black people win for once.
  5. There is a fair amount of bitterness and falsehoods in this post, but I will only address two. I am not sure where this idea that "all of the students who get in through BSAP must have a lower GPA than the other non-BSAP students" comes from. As one of the 24 new med students, I can assure you my cGPA (and other BSAP student's GPAs) is a 3.9+. Second: That photo that is circulating is a photo of the amazing Black Medical Student Association members who run the BMSA at UofT and foster an amazing community of support. You can join BMSA regardless of race/ethnicity presentation. That being said, despite what sort of box you seem to want to squeeze black people into as a ticket for their "easy" ride to medical school: Black is diverse and bold and beautiful. Light skin black people exist and are valid. Dark skin black people exist and are valid. Every shade of black comes with its own struggles, and they are certainly not evenly distributed, but we do share culture and knowledge that is lacking in the medical field. You my friend are a great example of that deficit. If you were not admitted to medical school this year, I would urge you to do some introspection as these sorts of feelings can show themselves in ways you may not understand, and could be negatively affecting your success. If you are in medical school or are a working physician, please consider how your clearly subconscious prejudice might be affecting your patients.
  6. I also received the same e-mail today and it was the first I have received since the webinar info
  7. Hey I have a quick question -- I am looking into getting my LOC from CIBC since the majority of my banking is with them. The problem is that the advisor is telling me that you only have access to 1/4 of the funds every year. For example, if I take a 200K LOC then I get access to 50K every year. Is this normal? It doesn't make sense to me since tuition changes, housing changes, and I am only paying for the amount that I use in the first place. Do other banks do this? Thank you!
  8. Told each other everything we did, in fact it is how I found some really cool opportunities myself I can understand how you may be tempted to not share as you maybe think it gives you an edge, but realistically you're only depriving yourself of valuable friendships and a good network of support. I feel like that could be a lonely road to travel down in the future. Plus, collaboration > solitude at almost all times during your future medical career
  9. The good thing is none of us have heard I guess!
  10. Try and find something that you really really really enjoy doing, your passion for it will shine through when you need to write an essay for applications or answer some questions during the interview
  11. Hey OP, I was in this position last year. I interviewed only at 1 school and was Wait Listed and didn't get in. Horrible feeling at the time but in hindsight it was perfect. I got to work part-time and make a lot of money, see friends, travel, and volunteer a lot more in areas I was passionate about. Of course these things are harder to do with covid right now but hopefully by New Year things will be getting better and you can really enjoy the year off. Its hard summoning the courage to just enjoy life, especially when you don't know if next year will be the year you get in but honestly you'll find that you'll learn something new, become an even better candidate and be more successful next time! Do what you enjoy doing for a year, try new things, and live life. You certainly won't regret it.
  12. I think this is also an interesting take. I believe the assumption that someone who recreationally uses illicit drugs is more unsafe for patients than someone who does not is not an unfair opinion. I suppose it hangs on someone’s interactions with people who are dependent on substances; be it alcohol or any other substance. In my experience, people who I have had personal relationships with who also have a dependent relationship on a substance often cannot perform their daily tasks (work, school, life activities etc) without using regularly. Of course this is not every addict’s experience and is only my experience of what I have viewed, but I would struggle to see how a doctor who is dependent on a substance could provide quality care while actively using or experiencing the effects of said substance. I completely agree with what you’re saying about someone who uses drugs recreationally and that is probably what is more likely to be the case for medical students. I think the point about parallels between vulnerable sector checks and drug tests was that both are requirements that some students have to pass to be deemed appropriate to practice medicine. Should a mature applicant who did something foolish in their late teens or early twenties be barred from ever entering medicine 10-15+ years later? Should someone who recreationally uses drugs safely and on their on time be penalized? I think the major point was that both of these possibilities could be revealed by a test the student has to take. I completely agree as well that punishment is never the way to go as it perpetuates the cycle of fearing help and not getting better. I’m not sure what the punishments would be for failing these drug tests (not being granted admission, most likely?). As for the alcohol commentary, again; you’re very correct. Alcohol has always seemed to remain untouched in most professions and medicine doesn’t seem to differ. I think the alcohol issue is rooted in deeper more political and economical reasons and is thus sort of shunted into its own category. Thanks so much for your take! Everyone is very insightful and respectful!
  13. That's an excellent point! One of the few reason why I assumed that it was fair to subject student's to this would be the fact that it is potentially acting in the best interest of the patient (say if someone was found to have tested positive). A great parallel as well with respect to the vulnerable sectors check. Upon a brief google of the situation as well I found that in most cases this was being done by the hospitals that are affiliated with the schools and thus it seemed to be more of a policy of the hospital itself to clear them of any liability issues later on down the line. Thank you for your thoughtful response!
  14. I read a post on a forum about two years ago that some schools in the US preform routine drug tests, and failing those, more long-term tests (fat samples, hair samples etc) on incoming medical students. It had me thinking about the ethical implications of this scenario and what it meant for barriers of medical education (for instance, targeting populations of those who have recovered from substance abuse but suffered in the past). I have a hard time seeing this be allowed in Canada but has anyone ever heard of this happening here? For the record: I’m a complete square, I do not use recreational (or prescription for that matter!) drugs. This is simply a thought provoking issue that I came across.
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