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malkynn

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malkynn last won the day on July 24 2017

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About malkynn

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  1. On the flip side: I make that working only 3 days a week, under ideal circumstances with near total autonomy, flexibility and working with an incredible mentor. OP, I would personally never ever do this and it’s hard to know without some experience practicing if this is the right choice for you. I’m not saying people shouldn’t do it, I’m just saying that 4 or 6 years is a long time to sacrifice freedom after a long 4 years of dental school, and at a prime time in your life for making long term decisions and plans. The financial incentive might be worth it, it might not. I was making high $1XX,000 right out of school working 4 days a week, well over $200,000 by my third year with some additional hours. I’m 5 years out and had I wanted to own, I would have bought by now. It puts you waaaaay behind in learning the ins and outs of managing a private clinic if ownership is what you aim for. I have friends who make more than I do and I have friends who make A LOT less. It’s hard to know in advance which you will be. This move is a good hedge against making a lot less, especially in a worsening market for dentists, so right now might be the ideal time to do it, who knows. I still maintain that it’s difficult to know yourself as a dentist to know if this kind of commitment is actually worth it for you. That’s a lot of freedom, flexibility, and autonomy to give up in a career where those are some of the main benefits. I’m not trying to discourage anyone, my reasons that this would be undesirable for me are my own personal reasons, but it’s worth contemplating why someone might not want to do this before signing up. Think carefully.
  2. Yeah, I think you would have to work A LOT to be able to produce that amount. The only associates I know making over 300K are goddamn machines working 6 days a week at break-neck speed and doing a lot of high-yield procedures, like placing implants at multiple clinics. Maybe some associates have managed it, it’s definitely possible. I would be very curious to see how they’ve pulled it off though. North or not, if you are working fee-for-service, then you have to work A LOT to make a massive salary. Working an underserved area can be much more lucrative than working an overly saturated area because you will be busier. However, unless you are getting paid more per procedure or getting some kind of Northern bonus, then I would assume the actual work itself wouldn’t be more lucrative than a busy job in the South. I wouldn’t just assume that North=“easy money” and South=“crappy income”. It’s not than simple. North=“higher demand for service” and South=“more challenging to find jobs with high demand”. The last time I saw a job posting in either Yellowknife or Iqaluit (I can’t remember which), it would have been a substantial pay cut for me compared to what I make now at my fully booked job where I charge substantially more than the average. I actually *want* to move up north, but first I’m tackling my debt and saving a nest egg before I seriously consider taking a pay cut and moving to an astronomically high cost-of-living area. Granted, I’m specifically talking about places so north that everything needs to be flown in for half the year. There’s a big difference between some places that are considered “North.” So yeah, I think Northern work is important and worth considering and has a lot of value professionally, personally, and potentially financially, but I wouldn’t look at it as a simple solution to anything.
  3. I wouldn't pay that amount to become a dentist. I love my job, but it's still a job.
  4. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    I’m going to politely stop participating in the debate because it’s starting to aggravate me.
  5. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Sorry if I don’t find it so funny. There’s a huge difference between getting work done by an international grad who is licensed to work in a country where the standards are incredibly high vs getting work done in a country with extremely lax standards and virtually no legal recourse for mistreatment of patients. Comparing my two statements as equivalent is wholely inaccurate and not particularly appreciated. If there are problems with ITDs on average, then that absolutely is an issue that needs to be addressed, and it sucks if patient care suffers in the meantime. However, I’ve seen plenty of sketchy shit from Canadian dentists, so I’m not about to support measures that brand Canadian grads as fundamentally superior because I don’t think it helps the problem. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think that better measures to evaluate or train foreign dentists is a good idea, that doesn’t mean I think the equivalency process is sufficient, I’m just unwilling to paint them all as inferior. Now excuse me while I go prepare to handle the nightmare case of dentistry from Mexico that landed in my chair, referred to me by a respected denturologist who is at a loss at to how to handle the cluster fuck that the guy came back with. So yeah, sorry if I don’t find it funny.
  6. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    You realize that you are talking about the same patient base that generally thinks it's reasonable and low risk to get their implants in Mexico, right??? I think people here are drastically over estimating the concern that patients have with respect to where and how their dentists were trained. I don't think many of them give it too much thought, nor do I think that knowing about accredited vs non accredited programs would change people's decision making process when it comes to choosing a dentist, which is primarily determined by location and availability of parking. The ones who do care will primarily look for online reviews and recommendations from friends and family, and probably won't be dissuaded from someone who comes with glowing reviews just because they were trained in a foreign country at a non-accredited school. Do you genuinely believe that all dentists from non-accredited schools should be branded as inferior in some way? Would this matter to anyone if it wasn't creating a over-saturation problem? I get that people want to be protectionist, and I don't disagree with it at all even though it won't happen. However, let's not conflate wanting to protect Canadian dentists with character assassinating foreign dentists. One of my dearest friends was trained in India, was an excellent clinician, and now retired from practice, teaches at a top school in the US. I would sooner trust her with my teeth over any of you here, no offense.
  7. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Most patients don’t care. In 5 years I’ve had maybe a dozen people ask where I went to dental school. It’s also not permissible for licensed dentists to market themselves as more qualified than other dentists with the same license. Our advertising standards are incredibly stringent. Granted, most dentists with a website flagrantly violate these rules, but the rules are there nonetheless.
  8. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    There are tons of dental jobs and the incomes are much higher than the national average. This doesn’t account for the debt, of course. If you looked at what the average new grad can actually afford to spend, you would see than many are at or well below the national average. Job bank isn’t wrong, it just isn’t seeing the whole picture. A lot of clinics actually have a hard time staffing positions, and it’s suuuuuuper easy to find a job. It took me a day to have 7 jobs lined up when I was last looking. That reality is not incompatible with what we are saying. Why is it so hard to staff those jobs? Because they are typically part time, evenings and weekends, with not enough patients to fill the schedule, so the dentist will make $0 for several hours that they are at work during the week, and the pressure put on them may be enormous and unethical. Or maybe the principal dentist is poaching all of the best work and using their associates as a dumping ground for everything they don’t want to do. There are tons of reasons why a lot of associate positions are hard to keep filled. Oversaturation doesn’t make it harder to find work, it actually makes it easier. It’s a lot harder to find *good* work and it’s A LOT harder to try and own, which leaves so many of us dependent on finding those harder to find quality associate positions. See the problem?
  9. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    I will repeat this until I am blue in the face: income is only a part of the picture of the problem with over saturation. I have absolutely no concerns about my ability to make money in this job. What I do have concern about is the stress and conditions under which I may end up in. Dentistry is and always has been an incredibly stressful job, and adding enormous economical stress on top of that is daunting and can be downright toxic. 10 years ago when I was deciding on med vs dent, I wasn’t hearing the stories I am now from dentists. Speaking as someone who has worked in both ideal conditions of working in a highly successful and stable clinic and in a clinic that over expanded and suffered financially, the experience is extremely different. It’s important to note that I made great money at both places. It was the environment and conditions that were drastically different. The money is a huge factor, but it was when I was making the most money that I was the most miserable. At one point, I truly and deeply hated this job. It’s also a HUGE hit to change jobs if you aren’t happy. It doesn’t matter how experienced you are, if you leave a clinic, you have to start from scratch somewhere else. It takes time to establish yourself again, build up your patient base, build their trust in you so that you can start doing more advanced procedures. My income dropped by ~70% for the first 2 months when I switched jobs and it took over 6 months to build back up to my previous level. Add to that the drop in income I had at my previous clinic while I scaled down over my last 2.5 months there. A lot of people can’t afford that kind of pay drop for months on end, which means they can get trapped in bad jobs, especially if they are the primary bread winner. My current job is truly, exceptionally fantastic, but it’s still a very, very stressful job. If I couldn’t work the way that I do now, I would simply leave the profession. It wouldn’t be worth it to me.
  10. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    You should be able to pay it off, but there are much bigger concerns like quality of working conditions. It’s not fun working for an owner who is struggling financially. The pressure can be unbearable. Then there’s the issue of affordability of owning, which is a whole other massive question with its own complex problems. What would I recommend? I recommend educating yourself about personal finance so that you can make intelligent and strategic financial moves that will work for you. It’s hard to make smart choices when you don’t understand the impact of your choices. Personally, I do just fine. I make plenty of money in a great clinic and have no concerns about my career long term except for the toll it’s taking on my body and the fact that I have other work that I do that might end up more interesting...and more profitable. It’s not all doom and gloom, it’s just that you have to be a hell of a lot more informed, careful, adaptable and strategic if you want to get the most out of it. You can’t just become a dentist, and hope for the best or you might end up frustrated.
  11. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Advocating and influencing, yes, but that influence is limited. I get it. This shitty situation is shitty, but no matter how much you feel like someone should be protecting your future career, it ain’t gonna happen and you need to be prepared to handle that. I work with the CDA, if I thought someone there could fix this, I would be scheduling a meeting with them and hammering home that point. Ostracized works with the ODA and he too is saying that they can’t do anything. Irwin Fegergrad from the RCDSO has said repeatedly that the government has no intention of budging on this. I don’t know what to tell you other than brace yourself, a great career can still be made in dentistry, but you will have to be savvy and good at identifying opportunities.
  12. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    I would recommend researching what the CDA actually does. Their mandate is limited. They don’t have the clout to do anything about this. They could try and fight tooth and nail on this and the government would smirk and say “that’s cute” https://www.cda-adc.ca/en/about/membership/
  13. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    I doubt they’re worried that dentists and pharmacists are going to manage to sway elections. No one cares about us but us. It sucks, it’s not fair, but politics isn’t about fairness, it’s about voters and voters do not care about this issue, and it’s a very tough sell to get them to care.
  14. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Which is a tough and dangerous sell because it only justifies the public perception that we are not trustworthy in the first place, which just confirms their already unfavourable view of us. It’s hard to defend the value of our industry while simultaneously throwing it under the bus.
  15. malkynn

    The slow decay of dentistry

    Governments aren’t in the business of making things fair, they’re in the business of getting and staying elected. We don’t represent a very big voter base and the voting public has very little regard for us. Protecting “rich greedy dentists” isn’t exactly a winning campaign strategy.
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