Family Medicine in Alberta vs. Ontario - can someone provide info?

[medigeek]

5 minutes ago, marrakech said:

I suppose all comparisons are to the US.  Medicine is anything but the idealized "free market" - restrictions on supply through regulations and limited number of residency positions.  Huge demand with unmet supply creates conditions for higher pay.  There are many Western countries outside the US, that have significant private insurance, but pay much less - ex: Germany for most specialties.    

Agree but it's all a quality control mechanism. Plenty of countries also pay relatively well like we do.. Europe is an exception among the western countries. 

 

6 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

Not every household in Canada is dual income for a variety of reasons....second of all lets go by assuming that they are. Making 80K a year as a dual income while trying to raise 2-3 kids and think about buying a house? Good luck. The vast majority of Canadians are not privileged. I am sorry if I took out my frustrations on you. I just wish medical schools did more to consider applicants with more diverse life paths instead of just looking at numbers when sadly many people who are let in to the system have money as a big motivator and look down on other professionals/citzens while many others are let out. It is a constant cycle where the privileged like to maintain their position and make the system harder for others to enter and making it easier for people like themselves to get in. The only people that suffer the most are the patients who will directly or indirectly have providers who cant relate and emphasize with them. 

Well what do you expect? That's life. As a doctor you can be working 65 hours a week (or a lot more) and have minimal time to actually enjoy your time. Money carries little value in the face of limited time. And I don't think most people are privileged in any way. I do agree with looking for more diverse candidates, I myself was one  

[NLengr]

19 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

I just wish medical schools did more to consider applicants with more diverse life paths instead of just looking at numbers when sadly many people who are let in to the system have money as a big motivator.....

They already look a a pretty diverse set of measures to determine admission. Objective criteria like grades and MCAT count less than they ever did. A bunch of weight is put into MMI answers, ECs etc. You are free to tell your story of personal financial struggle, illness or tragedy in the application. It gets considered in the mix of everything used ti decide in admission.  Nobody is gonna start mandating seats are set aside for people based on family SES. 

 

Also, do you have any proof or studies to back up your assertion that a large number of students admitted to med school were motivated to apply for monetary reasons? Because based on my experience, the majority of people who I see entering medical studies aren't primarily motivated by money. I'm gonna call BS on your claim unless you produce some proof. 

[End Poverty]

4 hours ago, NLengr said:

They already look a a pretty diverse set of measures to determine admission. Objective criteria like grades and MCAT count less than they ever did. A bunch of weight is put into MMI answers, ECs etc. You are free to tell your story of personal financial struggle, illness or tragedy in the application. It gets considered in the mix of everything used ti decide in admission.  Nobody is gonna start mandating seats are set aside for people based on family SES. 

 

Also, do you have any proof or studies to back up your assertion that a large number of students admitted to med school were motivated to apply for monetary reasons? Because based on my experience, the majority of people who I see entering medical studies aren't primarily motivated by money. I'm gonna call BS on your claim unless you produce some proof. 

An interesting read: 

Do students enter medicine for money and prestige or to be of service?

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/cmaj/190/8/E229.full.pdf

There is no conclusive evidence showing  that med students primary motivation is money, I would say that the primary motivation is career/work fulfillment.

[King74]

9 hours ago, NLengr said:

 Nobody is gonna start mandating seats are set aside for people based on family SES. 

As of this year the U of S has actually done exactly that.  For this years class 6 seats were reserved for IP applicants who come from lower income families.  There were a number of different things that could get you additional points for these seats, but the 1st criteria that needed to be met was an average household income of <$60 000 for the past 5 years.  It's called DSAAP (Diversity and Social Accountability Admissions Program) if anyone is interested.

[NLengr]

8 minutes ago, King74 said:

As of this year the U of S has actually done exactly that.  For this years class 6 seats were reserved for IP applicants who come from lower income families.  There were a number of different things that could get you additional points for these seats, but the 1st criteria that needed to be met was an average household income of <$60 000 for the past 5 years.  It's called DSAAP (Diversity and Social Accountability Admissions Program) if anyone is interested.

So are you good if you move out and do a 5 year undergrad living on your own? Or are they tied to your parents income no matter what?

[King74]

22 minutes ago, NLengr said:

So are you good if you move out and do a 5 year undergrad living on your own? Or are they tied to your parents income no matter what?

To be honest I'm not too sure, they may or may not accept that.  This past year we were required to submit tax documents for our family as the primary source of information, then were required to provide references that were able to verify our background and circumstances that we claimed in the questionnaire.  I was not required to provide tax documents for my parents (Note: I have a dependent), however I did need to provide references for some of the other claims I made regarding out low-income status from my youth.  It was actually quite difficult to find references that fit the criteria.  I expect a fair amount of people would be able to meet the first step to get into the program, but not as many would be able to meet the criteria for the extra points.  Also keep in mind this was the first year of the program, so I would expect revisions in the future based on how the next couple of years go.

If you search DSAAP in this document it shows you the information for last year.  I was mistaken the initial income threshold was $80 000, not $60 000.

https://medicine.usask.ca/documents/ugme/admission/Entry2018ApplicantInformation.pdf

[LostLamb]

Regarding SES and med school—Another initiative targeting young non-trads to pursue medicine in AB. 

https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/pathways

 

[#YOLO]

On 6/4/2018 at 2:27 PM, Persephone said:

You cannot act like it's possible to objectively evaluate what every different position should be paid. Any evaluation like that would involve a system of qualitative valuation that would be based on an ideological perspective (inherently subjective). The free market is not some objective mechanism, it's a system that derives from our society's evaluation of what type of work we see as more valuable. It's by no means objective.

classic mac student. super full of himself, and "holistic" boiii u havent even started classes yet. humble yourself. 

[Persephone]

13 minutes ago, #YOLO said:

classic mac student. super full of himself, and "holistic" boiii u havent even started classes yet. humble yourself. 

Classic med student. Misgendering ppl on the internet. Pretty humble to tell ppl to humble themselves.

[Persephone]

P.S. if having any grounding in theory or philosophy is holistic than I'll gladly take that qualifier on. Bye "boiiiii" lol

[NLengr]

6 hours ago, LostLamb said:

Regarding SES and med school—Another initiative targeting young non-trads to pursue medicine in AB. 

https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/pathways

 

This one seems more interesting because, from what I can gather, they are offering med school seats to people prior to undergrad starting. Kind of like that Queen's program (but with different program criteria obviously). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 

[LostLamb]

15 hours ago, NLengr said:

This one seems more interesting because, from what I can gather, they are offering med school seats to people prior to undergrad starting. Kind of like that Queen's program (but with different program criteria obviously). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 

Yup, exactly.