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brady23

Family Medicine Salary

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I've been crunching some numbers just for fun based on OHIP:

A typical 15-minute appointment is usually billed as an A007 ($33.70).

A family doc who sees ~25 patients per day for 5 days per week would make 25 x 33.70 x 5 x 52 = ~$220,000 per year

After overhead, this becomes: $220,000 x 0.7 = $154,000, and post-tax, this would be $102,000.

Are my numbers right? I know this is just an estimation (as there are other billing codes), but for some reason, that seems awfully low - the hourly rate for an FP is ~$135, with no vacation!  

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Most psychiatrists that I know don't manage to cram 3 units into every single hour. 2 units/hour is more realistic.

Also, FPs have all kinds of different funding models other than straight OHIP billings, and many do procedures or have other kinds of income streams in their practice.

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38 minutes ago, ellorie said:

Most psychiatrists that I know don't manage to cram 3 units into every single hour. 2 units/hour is more realistic.

Also, FPs have all kinds of different funding models other than straight OHIP billings, and many do procedures or have other kinds of income streams in their practice.

Thank you! That's fair. I know it's harder to join FHTs because the government placed restrictions on those, so I think fee for service is still the main OHIP method

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You're not just billing 33$ for each patient. In many cases you bill higher than that. There's also other billings you do/non ohip billings etc. I believe the average is 310ish for billings which includes part timer.

 

Hopefully the FHOs are a part of the negotiations with the new more reasonable government. 

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8 hours ago, medigeek said:

You're not just billing 33$ for each patient. In many cases you bill higher than that. There's also other billings you do/non ohip billings etc. I believe the average is 310ish for billings which includes part timer.

 

Hopefully the FHOs are a part of the negotiations with the new more reasonable government. 

Yes! FHTs seem like a great model, and I don't agree with restrictions to join them on new grads, hopefully the new government does something to improve this situation.  

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13 hours ago, medigeek said:

You're not just billing 33$ for each patient. In many cases you bill higher than that. There's also other billings you do/non ohip billings etc. I believe the average is 310ish for billings which includes part timer.

 

Hopefully the FHOs are a part of the negotiations with the new more reasonable government. 

The average salary for family physicians in Ontario is around 310 K include those who work part-time (higher percentage of GPs who work part-time compared to other specialties) 

The FHT GPs are definitely making more than 300 K annually. 

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7 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

The average salary for family physicians in Ontario is around 310 K include those who work part-time (higher percentage of GPs who work part-time compared to other specialties) 

The FHT GPs are definitely making more than 300 K annually. 

salary or billings?

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21 minutes ago, brady23 said:

Billings. After overhead and taxes, you come out with about 45% of your billings on average.

Holy shit so like 140k almost, not far off from government manager positions lol, surprising to say the least. 

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55 minutes ago, IMislove said:

Holy shit so like 140k almost, not far off from government manager positions lol, surprising to say the least. 

Yup! Fee for Service definitely seems like a stressful compensation model lol, I think capitation/FHOs would be better for the long-run 

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6 hours ago, IMislove said:

Holy shit so like 140k almost, not far off from government manager positions lol, surprising to say the least. 

after taxes, and assuming you take it all as salary

That would be a well paid government official I would think - someone that would take a long time to reach that position, and probably before taxes as well(?) We don't pay a lot of government people 230K after all :) 

Similar assumptions would put many specialists take home pay after everything at 175K (with a lower proportional overhead of 15% but same tax situation). Assuming 350K salary.

But again that makes assumptions most doctors aren't really following, and  that is all in both cases still a lot of money. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, rmorelan said:

after taxes, and assuming you take it all as salary

That would be a well paid government official I would think - someone that would take a long time to reach that position, and probably before taxes as well(?) We don't pay a lot of government people 230K after all :) 

Similar assumptions would put many specialists take home pay after everything at 175K (with a lower proportional overhead of 15% but same tax situation). Assuming 350K salary.

But again that makes assumptions most doctors aren't really following, and  that is all in both cases still a lot of money. 

 

 

Right no that’s my bad, pre tax so I guess closer to 100k after tax. Still, for 30-40k difference and having a 830-430 M-F job, they are pretty cushy. I already knew being a government employee I was lucky, but damn some of them never had any other job and complain when things change just a bit to make work a little harder. This work( medicine) will be more challenging and more meaningful which in my opinion is more important for me.

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100k+ in government is very easy. Just look at the various sunshine lists. And what you don't take into account is the generous pension and benefits. Most can easily retire rich at 55, barely having worked their life.

Government pays very well. FFS models are common across the country, because the government can't afford to pay MDs a salary.

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33 minutes ago, bloh said:

100k+ in government is very easy. Just look at the various sunshine lists. And what you don't take into account is the generous pension and benefits. Most can easily retire rich at 55, barely having worked their life.

Government pays very well. FFS models are common across the country, because the government can't afford to pay MDs a salary.

100 K+ in government is very easy, but I think that not everyone climbs up to the ladder that easily. Most of the governmental officials make around 40k-60 k and stay where they are. I find medicine much more interesting than sitting in an office and deal with bureaucrats M-F 9-5. 

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1 hour ago, Mithril said:

25 patients per day is quite low. Most of my patients don't take 15 minutes. There are also other incentives like chronic care billing codes, mental health codes, and private form fees.

Chronic care billing codes - I'm not sure if we have them in Ontario? 

I think seeing more than 25 patients per day would burn me out haha but finishing early is a bonus

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17 hours ago, brady23 said:

Chronic care billing codes - I'm not sure if we have them in Ontario? 

I think seeing more than 25 patients per day would burn me out haha but finishing early is a bonus

We do! ....Once you get to know most of your patients, some of them take less than 15 minutes (even for a resident physician)!

I wouldn't worry about billing in primary care for now. To brady23, I noticed that you posted a lot about specialties choices and remuneration as a MS1. I think that the best way to know which specialty you want to do, is through shadowing and talking to residents and staff physicians in preclerkship. UofT does offer a lot of preclerkship mentoring. Everyone in this form is biased in a way, as we all love our specialty and sometimes are more opinionated. Just my two cents :)  

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