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Hey guys, I'm a first year student. I recently had the idea of applying for one of the unis in Australia for dent (Queensland most likely). They take in my highschool marks for admission and not my Uni GPA since i would be applying before the end of my first year. This seems like a good idea to save time and avoid Canada's low admission chances. Plus my highschool mark was pretty good (mid 90) so I think I have a decent chance. The only catch is that it's a 400k tuition, with prob 100k more for living expenses (5 year course btw). I was thinking that since I would be graduating at around 24, I can grind for a couple of years to pay off a huge chunk before marriage and other concerns get on my mind. I should note that my mom is a dentist so maybe finding a job would be easier for me. Any advice? honestly anything would help. Of course the amount of debt is crazy but I'm thinking that it might be worth it (again, I might be stupid in thinking that, so lmk). Thanks in advance folks

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4 hours ago, Starburst said:

It depends, what's your first year GPA? That should give you an indication of how you will do in dental school.

Well we only had a couple of midterms but I should be somewhere in the 80s. My point is would it be beneficial to wait it out in Canada? what would be the advantages I really can't think of any.

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2 hours ago, Pauls said:

I believe UQ is the most expensive school in Australia . Why dont you to go to cheaper one to minimize your debt? check out this website for more info https://www.oztrekk.com/programs/dentistry/PG/queensland.php. There are cheaper schools in Australia that take you starlight from high school. 

Yes but the other ones open after my first year ends meaning they wouldn't take my highschool marks

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10 minutes ago, Z32000 said:

Yes but the other ones open after my first year ends meaning they wouldn't take my highschool marks

Just apply with your high school marks even if you have finished first year. If your first year GPA is low then dont send transcript and just send high school marks. You would save like 200k which is a lot of money. You focus and goal should be on choosing the CHEAPEST school and MINIMIZING your debt. 

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1 hour ago, cleanup said:

Lol no it isn't.

Haha ya you're right. But better than using his high school grades lol

@Z32000 I would personally stay here here and get into a school here than going to australia, but that's just me

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Honestly, because you just started undergrad, I think it's worth applying and maybe moving down if you're accepted. Although the costs are high, you would be starting and thus graduating earlier, as you mentioned. Also, it's true that dental schools here are cheaper, but unless you're in Quebec, they're not THAT cheap. U of T and Western have tuition fees of around 45k/year. You would also have to factor in the costs of your undergraduate degree (which can vary depending on whether you live at home or somewhere else). Also, graduating from an undergrad doesn't guarantee you a position (some people get in following a gap year or postgraduate studies). Just make sure you are aware of the costs going in and know that you would need a cosigner for loans if you end up wanting to go (even though the loans given by the banks wouldn't completeley cover the costs). If you're aware of all this info and still want to apply, you should go for it. Good luck! :)

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9 hours ago, Starburst said:

Haha ya you're right. But better than using his high school grades lol

@Z32000 I would personally stay here here and get into a school here than going to australia, but that's just me

Any reasons why? I'm just trying to weight the pros and cons out

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Just a point to consider:

A lot of people point to the fact that if you start work sooner that you will make more money, thereby  offsetting the enormous additional cost of foreign dental school. 

However, if you look at it differently: it also means more years that you *must* work as a dentist in order to make the trade off work. 

Personally, I only have so many years of dentistry in me. I already resent how many of them have been dedicated to debt. 

We’re all different, but it’s a perspective worth thinking about. 

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I'll throw my 2 cents in as well. 

you just started undergrad, how are you 100% certain that you want to go into dentistry. When i started undergrad I had no clue what i wanted to do. 
I'd say go and explore your interests! don't get tunnel vision which is what a lot of people around me got I found. 


Dentistry is not an easy career, the job market at the moment is quite whacky especially in big cities. 

I'd say stick out your first couple of years of undergrad and then if you really decided that you want to do dentistry then apply 

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15 hours ago, cookiemonster99 said:

I'll throw my 2 cents in as well. 

you just started undergrad, how are you 100% certain that you want to go into dentistry. When i started undergrad I had no clue what i wanted to do. 
I'd say go and explore your interests! don't get tunnel vision which is what a lot of people around me got I found. 


Dentistry is not an easy career, the job market at the moment is quite whacky especially in big cities. 

I'd say stick out your first couple of years of undergrad and then if you really decided that you want to do dentistry then apply 

I understand what you mean but how many careers in healthcare would you consider to be better than dent tho at the moment (no career is better than another, but I'm referring to lifestyle, remuneration, stability, fulfillment etc)? I would even say that med is declining as residency spots are slowly decreasing and more IMGs are coming in. Plus it's much longer. Any other ideas? 

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35 minutes ago, Z32000 said:

I understand what you mean but how many careers in healthcare would you consider to be better than dent tho at the moment (no career is better than another, but I'm referring to lifestyle, remuneration, stability, fulfillment etc)? I would even say that med is declining as residency spots are slowly decreasing and more IMGs are coming in. Plus it's much longer. Any other ideas? 

The world is so much bigger than just medical careers. 

Its not that other careers are better, it’s that it’s hard to know what you want without any experience. 

Several hundred thousand is A LOT to gamble on a career that you know little about when there’s is a whole world of careers out there that you could do with a fraction of the investment. 

These HUGE student loans make sense when what you are buying is a very secure high income compared to other careers, but when dentistry requires as much business savvy as other industries, then where is the benefit compared to other less investment-intensive careers?

I could make more in a career in finance with a fraction of the education and none of the student debt and it would probably take less business savvy than being a top performing dentist in the current business climate.

Again, this isn’t to say that dentistry is a bad career. In fact, it can be an amazing career. However, so can so many other industries, and few of them will require you to sign away your financial freedom and flexibility.

I think it’s a legitimate question to self reflect on why one would choose dentistry with so little life experience and perspective. If you look at the financial risk profile of the career, it’s one that you want to be damn sure of before signing on the dotted line of the bank loan that will own you for at least a decade. 

I spent two hours this afternoon strategizing how to host fancy dinners with dentists and prevent it from turning into a raging bitch-fest of negativity. 

Do not underestimate how difficult this job is, on multiple fronts. So are all careers, but few require the astronomical risk of upfront investment that dentistry does. 

I know a lot of stressed out dentist. I know A LOT of dentists stressed out about money. It’s not a guaranteed path to financial security.

Decide carefully. If you are a weirdo like me who deeply enjoys repetition, emotional confrontation, micro surgery under time constraints (few of us get to learn this beforehand, i was lucky working in neuro for 6 years), personal finance, and small business management, then cool, you may deeply enjoy it and not suffer the rampant depression and addiction in our industry. 

Just...take this decision seriously. There’s no “take backs” once you sign on to nearly half a million in debt. That’s it, your freedom is GONE. 

That’s not a small deal. Choose wisely. 

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What does your mom have to say about this?  Does she own a clinic with a job lined up for you?  Can she give you a prediction of your income?

I was at a meeting the other day with a crowd of mostly older dentists.  Guys nearing retirement now.  There was a lot of reminiscing along the lines of ‘my total four years of tuition cost $5500 and I made $100,000 in my first year’ (about $300,000 in today’s money). 

People will judge our profession on the results of that generation, most of whom did very very well   These guys had an income to debt ratio that was ~50+ times higher than new grads today   

 

 

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14 hours ago, Z32000 said:

I understand what you mean but how many careers in healthcare would you consider to be better than dent tho at the moment (no career is better than another, but I'm referring to lifestyle, remuneration, stability, fulfillment etc)? I would even say that med is declining as residency spots are slowly decreasing and more IMGs are coming in. Plus it's much longer. Any other ideas? 

There are A TON of careers out there that make wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than dentists. You just don't know about them because you haven't been exposed to them!

I've got friends who are in banking and they are raking it in....
Others are in computer sci or engineering and they work for big companies like google or apple and they get paid like 200k a year as well 
If I knew what I knew now when I was in high school. I may have chose a different career path tbh....

Edited by cookiemonster99

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7 minutes ago, cookiemonster99 said:

There are A TON of careers out there that make wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more than dentists. You just don't know about them because you haven't been exposed to them!

I've got friends who are in banking and they are raking it in....
Others are in computer sci or engineering and they work for big companies like google or apple and they get paid like 200k a year as well 
If I knew what I knew now when I was in high school. I may have chose a different career path tbh....

On the flip side, there are very very few professional jobs that allow you easily to work part time hours and still work at the top of your game and make a great living.

There are trade offs with every career, especially competitive large income careers.

Banking has its unique stresses and challenges. The difference is that the investment to work in banking is so low that you have the option to leave if it’s a poor fit, and the skills are highly transferable to a number of other careers.

With dentistry, you are practically signed on for life with extremely limited alternatives if it doesn’t end up working out the way you had hoped, and a financial noose around your neck for many years, especially if trained abroad.

Its amazing if it’s right for you, if you can find your place in the market where you can be happy and profitable and work with great people. It’s just that the current climate makes that more challenging and bad dental jobs are utterly miserable.

Again, every career has its trade offs, it’s just hard for a very young person with virtually no experience or knowledge of what their own limits are to determine if those trade offs will be worth it when they’re signing on the dotted line for upwards of a half million in debt (plus interest).

 

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2 hours ago, malkynn said:

On the flip side, there are very very few professional jobs that allow you easily to work part time hours and still work at the top of your game and make a great living.

There are trade offs with every career, especially competitive large income careers.

Banking has its unique stresses and challenges. The difference is that the investment to work in banking is so low that you have the option to leave if it’s a poor fit, and the skills are highly transferable to a number of other careers.

With dentistry, you are practically signed on for life with extremely limited alternatives if it doesn’t end up working out the way you had hoped, and a financial noose around your neck for many years, especially if trained abroad.

Its amazing if it’s right for you, if you can find your place in the market where you can be happy and profitable and work with great people. It’s just that the current climate makes that more challenging and bad dental jobs are utterly miserable.

Again, every career has its trade offs, it’s just hard for a very young person with virtually no experience or knowledge of what their own limits are to determine if those trade offs will be worth it when they’re signing on the dotted line for upwards of a half million in debt (plus interest).

 

and also many of those other jobs are high paid to off set some of the risks involved - my uncle is an investment banker and they get laid off, redistributed etc, etc relatively often for things that are completely outside of their control. You have to pay more to some one in those fields to offset the cost. 

and those high paying tech jobs - not every programmer is working at google :) Those jobs take skill and hard work as well just to get them in the first place, let alone hold on to them. The average programmer isn't making 200K a year. 

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5 hours ago, rmorelan said:

and also many of those other jobs are high paid to off set some of the risks involved - my uncle is an investment banker and they get laid off, redistributed etc, etc relatively often for things that are completely outside of their control. You have to pay more to some one in those fields to offset the cost. 

and those high paying tech jobs - not every programmer is working at google :) Those jobs take skill and hard work as well just to get them in the first place, let alone hold on to them. The average programmer isn't making 200K a year. 

Yep. 

There is simply no easy, low risk path to high incomes. 

If you are making a lot of money, you are trading off something to get it and that trade of is often risk, stress, hours, or all of the above. 

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On 10/12/2018 at 4:52 AM, malkynn said:

Yep. 

There is simply no easy, low risk path to high incomes. 

If you are making a lot of money, you are trading off something to get it and that trade of is often risk, stress, hours, or all of the above. 

couldn't agree more. 

If you 're looking for an "easy" way to make lots of money 
dentistry isn't it. Period. 

i doubt anything is lol...

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7 hours ago, cookiemonster99 said:

couldn't agree more. 

If you 're looking for an "easy" way to make lots of money 
dentistry isn't it. Period. 

i doubt anything is lol...

Yep. I work in finance alongside some big money guys, it’s absolutely insane. 

Conversely, it’s actually pretty easy to make a decently high income without much risk or crazy stress. 

Almost all of my “normal job” friends make low 6 figures. ~100K is pretty standard for most professionals with a bit of education a bit of work ethic and some experience.

It’s when you start aiming for over 100K that it starts costing you in terms of major trade offs. 

Its important to examine the value of those trade offs closely. Money is great, but not if it’s costing you happiness and health. 

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