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20 minutes ago, PhD2MD said:

I see the utility of testing...but what is the justification for the cost? Can we not demand some transparency? We pay them million(s?)/year in testing fees...we should be able to say or do something.

Ha I would love to see the break down. 

For the part 1 - there are what, roughly 2900 graduating medical students each year, and that test costs roughly 1200 for a total of roughly 3.5 million? Not exactly small potatoes although also not exactly major money on health care level I guess. 

 

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27 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

there is validity to that - but I don't think the LMCC is good enough to do it first off. You would have to redesign that entire test. Like the US it would then immediately force all the medical schools to train for that test as well to a much higher degree. Not really terrible things there but would take time and a pile of money. 

I am just not sure I like the idea of a single point of failure in the system. One bad test interview/match day can wipe out everything you worked for. There is also some not completely incorrect concern that your ability on a multiple choice exam shouldn't stratify you as much as the US does (it is easier to get into a US medical school than a Canadian one to  start with - and ability on that test beyond a point is probably a less useful indicator of ability as a resident). Doesn't mean that I don't think though some absolute measure of medical knowledge wouldn't be a welcome addition to the assessment of candidates - right now we do have the other problem, no clear idea at all of the knowledge of candidates. 

 

 

 

You're correct about the lack of utility of the LMcc exams.

A solution would be to use USMLE instead of LMCC but that'd leave out the socialist bent of the ethical section of the LMCC and we can't have that

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1 hour ago, PhD2MD said:

I see the utility of testing...but what is the justification for the cost? Can we not demand some transparency? We pay them million(s?)/year in testing fees...we should be able to say or do something.

I don't really think people care enough to do anything about it. We just write the exam, pass and get on with it. If you think about it, we pay millions for a lot of things, i mean, we probably spend millions/year on wasted gauze. 

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1 hour ago, GrouchoMarx said:

You're correct about the lack of utility of the LMcc exams.

A solution would be to use USMLE instead of LMCC but that'd leave out the socialist bent of the ethical section of the LMCC and we can't have that

Ha well plus again our entire medical educational system is not set up for that test - there is a ton of basic science etc on there which tests ability to learn all that stuff but a large part of it is also clinically meaningless. I am studying for it now and having passed out from residency and a now I suppose I could be staff somewhere I am constantly going "who cares" with this stuff. 

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38 minutes ago, Edict said:

I don't really think people care enough to do anything about it. We just write the exam, pass and get on with it. If you think about it, we pay millions for a lot of things, i mean, we probably spend millions/year on wasted gauze. 

WE don't, at least not in a direct way that gives us a reasonable ability to lobby.

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2 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said:

You're correct about the lack of utility of the LMcc exams.

A solution would be to use USMLE instead of LMCC but that'd leave out the socialist bent of the ethical section of the LMCC and we can't have that

You are right as well that a bad interview or match day can wipe you out as well - at least one would hope you would have more than one interview  I suppose. Even CARMS as bad as it is  in places offers something ( again in a limited fashion) if it doesn't work out the first time. With the USMLE it really seems to be a single point of failure with no real way of managing it. Ha, a very US approach to things I suppose. 

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Some of the complaints about LMCC 2 are that it is so far removed etc for some specialties, is there not an option to take it earlier in training? i.e. pgy1 or m4

Or is there a requirement that it be done only after a certain point. I know for LMCC1 MS3 IMGs can take it, so there shouldnt be any reason CMGs cant take QE1 at end of 3rd year instead of 4th year...and then take QE2 end of 4th year or early PGY1?

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I did FM Residency.  There were slots for about a quarter of the FM residents (done by lottery) to do LMCC 2 as R1, the rest did as R2.  I think it would be ideal if everyone would do it as R1.  In FM, not much study is actually needed.  I can see how some specialty residencies would want to set aside time to study, which I have heard would be difficult as R1 given how intense a lot of first year residencies are.

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On 11/9/2018 at 11:10 AM, JohnGrisham said:

Some of the complaints about LMCC 2 are that it is so far removed etc for some specialties, is there not an option to take it earlier in training? i.e. pgy1 or m4

Or is there a requirement that it be done only after a certain point. I know for LMCC1 MS3 IMGs can take it, so there shouldnt be any reason CMGs cant take QE1 at end of 3rd year instead of 4th year...and then take QE2 end of 4th year or early PGY1?

This would be similar to the timing of the USMLE for US med students where they do their step 2 CK and step 2 CS exams during the first half of MS4 between Aug-Dec of 4th year.

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