rmorelan Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, PhD2MD said: I see the utility of testing...but what is the justification for the cost? Can we not demand some transparency? We pay them million(s?)/year in testing fees...we should be able to say or do something. Ha I would love to see the break down. For the part 1 - there are what, roughly 2900 graduating medical students each year, and that test costs roughly 1200 for a total of roughly 3.5 million? Not exactly small potatoes although also not exactly major money on health care level I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrouchoMarx Posted November 8, 2018 Report Share Posted November 8, 2018 27 minutes ago, rmorelan said: there is validity to that - but I don't think the LMCC is good enough to do it first off. You would have to redesign that entire test. Like the US it would then immediately force all the medical schools to train for that test as well to a much higher degree. Not really terrible things there but would take time and a pile of money. I am just not sure I like the idea of a single point of failure in the system. One bad test interview/match day can wipe out everything you worked for. There is also some not completely incorrect concern that your ability on a multiple choice exam shouldn't stratify you as much as the US does (it is easier to get into a US medical school than a Canadian one to start with - and ability on that test beyond a point is probably a less useful indicator of ability as a resident). Doesn't mean that I don't think though some absolute measure of medical knowledge wouldn't be a welcome addition to the assessment of candidates - right now we do have the other problem, no clear idea at all of the knowledge of candidates. You're correct about the lack of utility of the LMcc exams. A solution would be to use USMLE instead of LMCC but that'd leave out the socialist bent of the ethical section of the LMCC and we can't have that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, PhD2MD said: I see the utility of testing...but what is the justification for the cost? Can we not demand some transparency? We pay them million(s?)/year in testing fees...we should be able to say or do something. I don't really think people care enough to do anything about it. We just write the exam, pass and get on with it. If you think about it, we pay millions for a lot of things, i mean, we probably spend millions/year on wasted gauze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, GrouchoMarx said: You're correct about the lack of utility of the LMcc exams. A solution would be to use USMLE instead of LMCC but that'd leave out the socialist bent of the ethical section of the LMCC and we can't have that Ha well plus again our entire medical educational system is not set up for that test - there is a ton of basic science etc on there which tests ability to learn all that stuff but a large part of it is also clinically meaningless. I am studying for it now and having passed out from residency and a now I suppose I could be staff somewhere I am constantly going "who cares" with this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 38 minutes ago, Edict said: I don't really think people care enough to do anything about it. We just write the exam, pass and get on with it. If you think about it, we pay millions for a lot of things, i mean, we probably spend millions/year on wasted gauze. WE don't, at least not in a direct way that gives us a reasonable ability to lobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, GrouchoMarx said: You're correct about the lack of utility of the LMcc exams. A solution would be to use USMLE instead of LMCC but that'd leave out the socialist bent of the ethical section of the LMCC and we can't have that You are right as well that a bad interview or match day can wipe you out as well - at least one would hope you would have more than one interview I suppose. Even CARMS as bad as it is in places offers something ( again in a limited fashion) if it doesn't work out the first time. With the USMLE it really seems to be a single point of failure with no real way of managing it. Ha, a very US approach to things I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 Some of the complaints about LMCC 2 are that it is so far removed etc for some specialties, is there not an option to take it earlier in training? i.e. pgy1 or m4 Or is there a requirement that it be done only after a certain point. I know for LMCC1 MS3 IMGs can take it, so there shouldnt be any reason CMGs cant take QE1 at end of 3rd year instead of 4th year...and then take QE2 end of 4th year or early PGY1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 Also, when the US students rocked the boat about the uselessness of Step 2 CS and that 99% of US med students passed it and should only be for IMGs, they raised the failing rate of the exam(apparently), as a counter to the online student surveys/petitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medisforme Posted November 11, 2018 Report Share Posted November 11, 2018 I did FM Residency. There were slots for about a quarter of the FM residents (done by lottery) to do LMCC 2 as R1, the rest did as R2. I think it would be ideal if everyone would do it as R1. In FM, not much study is actually needed. I can see how some specialty residencies would want to set aside time to study, which I have heard would be difficult as R1 given how intense a lot of first year residencies are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded frog Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 I did it as an R1, and would highly recommend this, especially if you were in a non-general specialty as you're just going to get less good at everything else as time goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy30 Posted November 15, 2018 Report Share Posted November 15, 2018 On 11/9/2018 at 11:10 AM, JohnGrisham said: Some of the complaints about LMCC 2 are that it is so far removed etc for some specialties, is there not an option to take it earlier in training? i.e. pgy1 or m4 Or is there a requirement that it be done only after a certain point. I know for LMCC1 MS3 IMGs can take it, so there shouldnt be any reason CMGs cant take QE1 at end of 3rd year instead of 4th year...and then take QE2 end of 4th year or early PGY1? This would be similar to the timing of the USMLE for US med students where they do their step 2 CK and step 2 CS exams during the first half of MS4 between Aug-Dec of 4th year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychiatry2017 Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hey guys a colleague of mine failed LMCC 2 by 4 points, would it be worthwhile to ask for score recheck while registering for Spring LMCC II exam? Anyone has successful experience with score rechecks? Vero1993 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamham Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 8:36 AM, psychiatry2017 said: Hey guys a colleague of mine failed LMCC 2 by 4 points, would it be worthwhile to ask for score recheck while registering for Spring LMCC II exam? Anyone has successful experience with score rechecks? Sorry to hear that. I haven't heard of any success stories, but there is no harm trying. Just tell your friend to be prepared for a re-write. I have no clue how scores are calculated, but I have heard many who had scores just barely above the passing mark. 4 points may seem "little" on the surface, but it may actually be quite far away from the passing mark in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 11/10/2018 at 4:34 PM, medisforme said: I did FM Residency. There were slots for about a quarter of the FM residents (done by lottery) to do LMCC 2 as R1, the rest did as R2. I think it would be ideal if everyone would do it as R1. In FM, not much study is actually needed. I can see how some specialty residencies would want to set aside time to study, which I have heard would be difficult as R1 given how intense a lot of first year residencies are. Why is there a limitation on the # of seats? You hear about IMGs being able to write the exams etc (but most end up not being eligible to even apply residency etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medisforme Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 12:38 PM, JohnGrisham said: Why is there a limitation on the # of seats? You hear about IMGs being able to write the exams etc (but most end up not being eligible to even apply residency etc). That's just for FM year 1 seats. I am guessing the rest are for FM R2's who haven't written, FM R2 re-writes, and specialty residencies writing and re-writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrepid86 Posted January 21, 2019 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 10:36 AM, psychiatry2017 said: Hey guys a colleague of mine failed LMCC 2 by 4 points, would it be worthwhile to ask for score recheck while registering for Spring LMCC II exam? Anyone has successful experience with score rechecks? I haven't heard of any successful recounts, and I don't suggest paying to have it done. Score rechecks are almost always fruitless, because scores that are borderline failures are already given greater scrutiny prior to results being released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 9:13 PM, medisforme said: That's just for FM year 1 seats. I am guessing the rest are for FM R2's who haven't written, FM R2 re-writes, and specialty residencies writing and re-writing. Right but in wondering why there is even a limitation? If every FM r1 wants to write it in year one when its optimal, they should be afforded the option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PublicWifiHotspot Posted August 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 Update: results available at https://www.**DELETED**.com/r/medicine/comments/cw4ik4/a_year_ago_we_surveyed_mccqe_part_ii_test_takers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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