cake2life Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Did anyone else have issues getting interviews at Ontario FM programs this year? I'm an OOP student but originally from Ontario. It's pretty obvious that FM was my top choice and I have 4 weeks of FM electives in Ontario. I applied to all 6 schools, but only ended up with 2 interviews :| I got interviews everywhere else I applied to, including provinces I had no electives in, so I'm a bit confused. Are there more students from Ontario going into FM this year? Or are more people just backing up with FM? Any insight would be much appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkhhylyiluh6 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 family med is the new derm, bro! but in all seriousness, I think a ton of people are backing up with it/have switched to all-in on it this year (at least in my class-people are just sick of the stress of CaRMS/no jobs in certain specialities), so family had a large pool to choose from this year. Still will probably be among the least competitive, but I suspect it wont be a walk-on like in previous years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroD Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Anecdotally, it seems like the pendulum has begun to swing from everyone wanting to specialize, to people wanting a safer/quicker route to doctor income + all of the freedom and flexibility that comes with family. That and the fact that recent match rates have scared many more people into at least taking family seriously. Pendulum always swing! I wonder how this will turn out and how long until it swings back the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2019CaRMS Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 I'll agree to this as someone who went through last years CaRMS. It seems like the Ontario schools, Sask, and Manitoba were very selective this year. I got my top two picks for FM plus two I would rank middle of the pack, but got all the anatomical pathology invites aside from Manitoba, Sask, Dal, and Toronto. From what I gathered from a friend in Sask FM over the holidays is they got tired of burning through so much time interviewing people who likely are using them as a "backup" program. I'm a weird guy who studied/lived all over the western side of the country though so that might count for something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleDaisy Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/2/2019 at 1:42 PM, cake2life said: Did anyone else have issues getting interviews at Ontario FM programs this year? I'm an OOP student but originally from Ontario. It's pretty obvious that FM was my top choice and I have 4 weeks of FM electives in Ontario. I applied to all 6 schools, but only ended up with 2 interviews :| I got interviews everywhere else I applied to, including provinces I had no electives in, so I'm a bit confused. Are there more students from Ontario going into FM this year? Or are more people just backing up with FM? Any insight would be much appreciated!! Hey cake2life. I think so, I heard that UofT FM refused a lot of good applicants this year, a lot of UofT medical students backing up with FM were refused. I believe that there are large volumes of CMGs backing up with FM, and also more people ranking FM as their first choice given its great job market and flexibility. I am sorry to hear about the 2 interviews in Ontario, but there is not much you can do at this point beside excelling at your upcoming interviews!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mononoke Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 I think this is the first year some FM programs said they wouldn't interview everyone who applied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 7 hours ago, mononoke said: I think this is the first year some FM programs said they wouldn't interview everyone who applied Two things I wonder: 1. Do they rank everyone? Specialties may not rank everyone but FM should, no? 2. Programs that had at least several unfilled spots (not just 1-2) after the 1st iteration last year, are likely "safe" matches still? Basically, a program that had 10 unfilled spots last year should be an automatic match essentially this year for someone who got an invite (assuming interview goes okay). Or am I dead wrong on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkhhylyiluh6 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 programs are under no obligation to fill their spots. Some programs are fine with leaving that spot unfilled (ridiculous i know, given the number of unmatched students, but yeah) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 hours ago, beeboop said: programs are under no obligation to fill their spots. Some programs are fine with leaving that spot unfilled (ridiculous i know, given the number of unmatched students, but yeah) I see, but in terms of likelihood... do they really leave spots unfilled in FM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Yeah, programs may have had prior bad experiences and decide it's better to leave a spot unfilled than take someone who isn't a good fit and could lead to problems down the road. ETA: can't speak specifically to FM. Just following up on the statement above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 1/12/2019 at 3:21 PM, mononoke said: I think this is the first year some FM programs said they wouldn't interview everyone who applied Not true, has happened in prior years at a number of programs where they do not interview all that apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qszwdxefc Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 The number I've heard thrown around is schools screen out about 150-200 of the 700-900 applications they received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F508 Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 A FM program that has 10 spots remaining doesn't mean they are a safe backup. I know of people last year who backed up with FM and interviewed at a certain program. The program had 10 spots remaining and they went unmatched (i.e. did not get the back up in FM despite interviewing there). So FM does not rank everyone that they interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkhhylyiluh6 Posted January 19, 2019 Report Share Posted January 19, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 10:39 PM, qszwdxefc said: The number I've heard thrown around is schools screen out about 150-200 of the 700-900 applications they received christ thats still a lot of interviews to go through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrepid86 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 Many people who backup with FM tend to overestimate how much they would actually enjoy doing it. There is an argument about being legit interested in more than one area of medicine, but practically-speaking the second choice is usually a distant one compared to the first. Some will disagree with that notion, but it's nevertheless accurate if people were truly being honest with themselves. Even this particular forum has had several who matched to their FM backup only to regret it immediately and look for ways out, thus wasting their time and others. Screening out applicants who clearly wanted a speciality first is doing at least some of them a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Intrepid86 said: Many people who backup with FM tend to overestimate how much they would actually enjoy doing it. There is an argument about being legit interested in more than one area of medicine, but practically-speaking the second choice is usually a distant one compared to the first. Some will disagree with that notion, but it's nevertheless accurate if people were truly being honest with themselves. Even this particular forum has had several who matched to their FM backup only to regret it immediately and look for ways out, thus wasting their time and others. Screening out applicants who clearly wanted a speciality first is doing at least some of them a favor. Agreed, but then many people prefer to have something of a job, then being unmatched - and it doesnt help that recent hype has further fueled this anxiety. I've seen many many people this cycle applying multiple specialites and going on 20+ carms interviews in 2-3 specialties. The worst is the trend i see in people saying they want to do Rural FM and do an elective as such, but then to only apply to urban sites in hopes of "looking good". At the end of the day everyone will do what they see best for themselves, even though directly its just making the whole system more difficult for everyone..including themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMislove Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnGrisham said: The worst is the trend i see in people saying they want to do Rural FM and do an elective as such, but then to only apply to urban sites in hopes of "looking good". Can you elaborate further on this? I am also interested in rural FM programs, among a few other specialities atm, but am not drawn to working in the major cities (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) for my career. I would much rather community hospitals associated with a university, or possibly a community hospital in smaller cities. Still a long way to go, but I like thinking far in advance xD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah1234 Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnGrisham said: Agreed, but then many people prefer to have something of a job, then being unmatched - and it doesnt help that recent hype has further fueled this anxiety. I've seen many many people this cycle applying multiple specialites and going on 20+ carms interviews in 2-3 specialties. The worst is the trend i see in people saying they want to do Rural FM and do an elective as such, but then to only apply to urban sites in hopes of "looking good". At the end of the day everyone will do what they see best for themselves, even though directly its just making the whole system more difficult for everyone..including themselves. I think a huge issue is that there is no longer a "default" type of doctor. I understand FM from not wanting to be thought of being second class. However, it isn't possible for everyone to achieve their match goals and are we okay with saying that they aren't allowed to be doctors of any kind? I feel like we do let some students (without red flags) fall through the cracks because of this insane system. I'm a huge proponent for doing everything to match because going unmatched is a huge risk to your professional career. Even if you don't enjoy FM, the flexibility that board certification offers you opens up a lot of doors. Even simple stuff like admin work and OR Assist is only possible if you finish something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambi Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 20 hours ago, F508 said: FM does not rank everyone that they interview Nor should they. Applicants don't want to go unmatched but programs don't want to waste their time and are looking for what they consider to be a good fit. When I was up at bats for CaRMS, I applied to FM and 2 specialties, got my interviews, wrote compelling motivational letters expressing my interest and reasons, and, I had no backup, i.e., I would have been entirely happy with any one of these 3 fields and saw myself having an enjoyable and productive career in FM or the 2 specialties. I understood that luck was very much involved, I made my selection with due deliberation and the final choice was out of my hands. If the interviewers smell backup, you likely go to the bottom of the pile if ranked at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/19/2019 at 4:29 PM, F508 said: A FM program that has 10 spots remaining doesn't mean they are a safe backup. I know of people last year who backed up with FM and interviewed at a certain program. The program had 10 spots remaining and they went unmatched (i.e. did not get the back up in FM despite interviewing there). So FM does not rank everyone that they interview Do you think those people were poor interviewees or just obvious back-up cases in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F508 Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 unsure.. but it must vary case by case there were plenty of other people who backed up and were accepted so I guess it depends on how much thought they put into it/how convincing they were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiopaque Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 i backed up with it (originally peds) but matched to UT fmed. it was my 10th choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freewheeler Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Radiopaque said: i backed up with it (originally peds) but matched to UT fmed. it was my 10th choice. It will be really interesting when the stats for this carms cycle come out. A lot of people seemed to match outside of their top 3 choices. While the absolute number of unmatched cmgs went down this year, anecdotally I feel many more people matched lower down their rank list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiopaque Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, freewheeler said: It will be really interesting when the stats for this carms cycle come out. A lot of people seemed to match outside of their top 3 choices. While the absolute number of unmatched cmgs went down this year, anecdotally I feel many more people matched lower down their rank list. Agreed, I have noticed a similar pattern this year. I'm wondering what the policy is for swapping with someone else. Some people say its a "binding contract" but I know lots of people who switch a few months into their residency. Someone said www.residentransfer.com posts residents who want to swap but not sure if we can do this before the start of residency, not sure if its worth it to pay $30 at this point. Like maybe someone got Sask peds and would prefer Toronto fmed that would want to switch with me? I'm guessingn program directors prefer residents who want to be there as long as they have enough residents to cover call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah1234 Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Radiopaque said: Agreed, I have noticed a similar pattern this year. I'm wondering what the policy is for swapping with someone else. Some people say its a "binding contract" but I know lots of people who switch a few months into their residency. Someone said www.residentransfer.com posts residents who want to swap but not sure if we can do this before the start of residency, not sure if its worth it to pay $30 at this point. Like maybe someone got Sask peds and would prefer Toronto fmed that would want to switch with me? I'm guessingn program directors prefer residents who want to be there as long as they have enough residents to cover call. Switches within a school might be possible although I only know of one situation. Switches within a province usually are governed by transfer protocols. Interprovincial transfers are even more stringent with protocols. The way funding is allocated to schools for residents based on the contract makes it difficult to swap places. In a way, a residency director hired a certain set of students and the spot isn't a commodity that is free to be swapped between different students. I have never heard of residenttransfer.com but I suspect it is some sort of scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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