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Tips for an M2 who's about to start organizing electives and core rotations.


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Hi all, 

I'm a second year medical student at University of Sherbrooke. We have reached the point in our year where we have to choose our core elective track (in other words, the order of our rotations) and start planning our electives. 

I am a student who is VERY interested in radiology (1st choice) and also very interested in nuclear medicine and radiation oncology (tied for second choice).

I have 10 weeks total of pre-carms electives. My first elective is only a 2 week elective in the month of October 2019 and my other 8 weeks can either be split into 2x 4 week electives, 1x4week + 2x2week electives, or 4x2week electives. 

My questions are the following:

(1) what core rotations are good to have before carms for someone who's interested in radiology? To keep it simple, should I be aiming to pick a track that places surgical rotations earlier, or one that focuses more on internal med? Which rotations do you guys think should be reserved for later on in the year (when one has more experience) because they're more intensive?

(2) I really want to match at a school that is within a 3 hour distance from Montreal or at a school IN Montreal. That being said, I can focus my electives around my top choice Quebec schools (Montreal and McGill) only or I can reserve one elective for queens or Ottawa. I was wondering which of these schools are MOST selective in interviewing students who have actually done an elective there (in other words, would not taking any electives at Ottawa or queens hurt my chances of getting an interview there?) Also, would taking a 2 week elective at an Ontario school be foolish? Would taking many 2 week electives in order to cover many schools be worse than just choosing 2 schools for 4 week electives? I am an anglophone btw so I am perfectly functional in English (even more so than French ironically enough). 

Thanks for the advice!!

 

 

 

 

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For residency, programs need to know if you are a good, ideally from personal experience with you doing a rotation. Accordingly, if you are going to apply to any dept in Ontario, you really want to do a rotation there so as to enhance your chances. Knowing you on paper only doe not give them the assurance they will receive from working with you. Good luck.

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I am from outside Quebec so YMMV.

1) Doing IM will probably give you more time to read up on radiology. Having an emerg rotation also gives good exposure to the kind of imaging medical students are expected to know on elective. Ideally you would have completed both IM and surgery though.

2) Queens and McGill were more selective this year is my understanding.

Regarding electives, I believe that for an above average student (in academics and soft skills), 2 weeks is generally sufficient even in radiology. But since it sounds like McGill is your top choice, it is probably worthwhile doing a 4 week elective there and using the rest of your time doing 2 week electives.

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Thanks for the input everyone. I have been looking at my elective options and have spoken to a few successful rads applicants this year. This is what I have gathered:

2 weeks is generally enough for a rads rotation at most places (as per successful applicants), however its best to spend 4 weeks at your top choice. 

McMaster and Calgary are really selective for students that have actually rotated there. 

Ottawa, Queens and University of Montreal offer interviews even if you didn't actually rotate there

So from this info, I think I will structure my electives in the following ways:

- 2 weeks in radiation oncology (either at my home school or a Quebec school) 

- 4 weeks at McGill rads

- 2 weeks at UBC rads

- 2 weeks at McMaster rads

- 2 weeks in either nuclear med or pathology (AFTER CARMS deadline - won't count for carms but it is still before the interview so these programs will see that I have shown interest I gather)

I will also probably do my obligatory clerkship rotation of 8 weeks in family med before my rads electives, as this will probably give me ample time to review my anatomy and read up on rads and will also have significant ER time (to see the main acute pathologies that ill probably see in rads). I can also do my gen surg + surgical subspecialty rotation instead of fam med, but I feel like its such a busy and intense rotation that it will burn me out before my rads electives. Input on this is welcome. 

I would just like some input from you guys if you see any flaws with this line of thought. What I am iffy about in this is that I will have no rotation at University of Montreal, however from what successful applicants have told me, they are really not biased in choosing interviewees based on if they rotated there or not, so id rather spend my time where this matters more. Also, I am doing a 2 week preclerkship rotation at University of Montreal in one month with the program director there, so I think this may be sufficient for that school in terms of face time. In terms of the out of province rotations, do you guys think I am better off spending 4 weeks at either UBC or McMaster or splitting between both to get a more varied taste?

Finally, I would like your guys input on UBC rads and McMaster Rads. I have family in both cities and really would not mind matching there at all, however I assume it is ridiculously competitive, especially for a Quebec student that doesn't have an undergrad or any publications (thus far - I only have one research experience in neuroPET-MRI and I am just starting another project, with a few extracurriculars ). Are there any suggestions on what one could do to increase their competitiveness for these schools (observerships, etc)? Also, any commentary on McMaster's rotation/rads program would be appreciated as I have not heard much. 

Thank you guys!

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Also, is there any way to see the relative competitiveness of all the rads programs in canada? I know that Toronto, UBC and McGill are classically the most competitive for any field, but it would be nice to see detailed stats on how many people apply to each rads program in canada just to get a feel. 

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4 hours ago, Jm88 said:

I would just like some input from you guys if you see any flaws with this line of thought.

There is no perfect way to do it. As long as you do electives in your specialty of choice at your top schools, you have done the best you can for the most part.

4 hours ago, Jm88 said:

What I am iffy about in this is that I will have no rotation at University of Montreal, however from what successful applicants have told me, they are really not biased in choosing interviewees based on if they rotated there or not, so id rather spend my time where this matters more. Also, I am doing a 2 week preclerkship rotation at University of Montreal in one month with the program director there, so I think this may be sufficient for that school in terms of face time. In terms of the out of province rotations, do you guys think I am better off spending 4 weeks at either UBC or McMaster or splitting between both to get a more varied taste?

Personally I believe there is almost no added value of doing more than 2 weeks of radiology electives at a school.

If you are strong, you will be recognized as strong very quickly and it isn't needed.

If you are weak, 4 weeks will not save you.

If you are average, it will help a bit but your overall match chances would still be higher if you did 2 weeks somewhere else. Additionally, seeing more programs is highly beneficial toward developing your understanding of the kind of program you want to train in. I would recommend doing 2 weeks at UBC and McMaster rather than 4 weeks at a single one.

4 hours ago, Jm88 said:

Finally, I would like your guys input on UBC rads and McMaster Rads. I have family in both cities and really would not mind matching there at all, however I assume it is ridiculously competitive, especially for a Quebec student that doesn't have an undergrad or any publications (thus far - I only have one research experience in neuroPET-MRI and I am just starting another project, with a few extracurriculars ).

Competitiveness at each school waxes and wanes.

4 hours ago, Jm88 said:

Are there any suggestions on what one could do to increase their competitiveness for these schools (observerships, etc)?

  • Pleasant personality: Don't be annoying, be someone most people would want to have around, be keen
  • Knowledge: Read a lot and make sure you see as many imaging cases as you can in clerkship, especially any ED cases (e.g. chest and MSK plain films) and common surgical emergencies.
  • Network: Get some face-time with staff who are amenable to writing letters
  • Extra work: If possible, find opportunities to do case reports or present at rounds (but don't forget the first rule: don't be annoying)

If you have done most of the above successfully, you will likely be able to convert it into a strong LOR.

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Something to keep in mind is that, unless that has changed with the new curriculum, Sherbrooke only allows you to complete two electives in the same field (ie: radiology).

Completing an ortho elective could be relevant since, from my experience, they usually almost completely ignore the radiologists reports and review their own imaging. Also, directly seeing the anatomy really doesn't hurt. As such, an ortho elective would probably help a lot as far as getting comfortable with the anatomy and MSK imaging itself goes. I'm usually looking at dozens of plain films a day and quite a few scans/MRIs.

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1 hour ago, Snowmen said:

Something to keep in mind is that, unless that has changed with the new curriculum, Sherbrooke only allows you to complete two electives in the same field (ie: radiology).

in relation to this:

  • there's a universal 8 week cap on all single-discipline elective for all schools starting in 2021 (i.e. can't do more than 8 weeks ophtho, rads..);
  • Sherbrooke has actually been more restrictive on "non-clinical" electives of pathology, radiology - only 1 elective allowed (4 weeks).  It's possible that they have eased this restriction, but I would double check.
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  • 2 months later...
On 3/10/2019 at 4:35 PM, tere said:

in relation to this:

  • there's a universal 8 week cap on all single-discipline elective for all schools starting in 2021 (i.e. can't do more than 8 weeks ophtho, rads..);
  • Sherbrooke has actually been more restrictive on "non-clinical" electives of pathology, radiology - only 1 elective allowed (4 weeks).  It's possible that they have eased this restriction, but I would double check.

I've never heard of that rule by Sherbrooke--any idea of the rationale?

Any other schools with a similar rule?

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:43 PM, Tullius said:

I've never heard of that rule by Sherbrooke--any idea of the rationale?

Any other schools with a similar rule?

It is true that Sherbrooke limits us to only 4 weeks in a non-clinical specialty (diagnostic radiology, pathology, etc)....however they REALLY don't enforce it. They just ''suggest'' this rule because they really emphasize the importance of clinical knowledge. 

I haven't heard if this is the case for other schools. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/2/2019 at 2:01 AM, 1D7 said:

2) Queens and McGill were more selective this year is my understanding.

Would you mind clarifying what you mean by this? As far as I understood, electives are allocated based on who first submits their application in the Portal for that particular slot, but I do realize there may be other factors at play. Do you have more information on this, e.g. what factors into being selective?

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1 hour ago, btdubs said:

Would you mind clarifying what you mean by this? As far as I understood, electives are allocated based on who first submits their application in the Portal for that particular slot, but I do realize there may be other factors at play. Do you have more information on this, e.g. what factors into being selective?

selective for interviewing, as stated in the original question

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