Questions about Ontario and FM

[blueskyguy]

Hi all,

I am currently a second year Canadian student at a U.S. med school with interests in returning to Canada for FM. I was born and raised in Ontario, and that is where my family is located.

Few quick questions regarding the current state of healthcare (especially FM) in Ontario:

- How would you describe the current state of Ontario healthcare? I've heard people complaining about Ontario stuff on these forums, but I was always too young to understand what the actual problems were. Could you describe these problems to me, and have they changed at all?

- Has anything changed recently (or will change) regarding Ontario healthcare?

- Also, will any of this have any effect on me and my future in FM? Would you say that the future of FM in Ontario is bright? (I came across articles on the internet talking about "new contracts" being agreed upon in Ontario, including this one: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-new-ontario-doctors-contract-will-increase-health-spending-by-1/) I was hoping you could help me understand how these "new agreements" affect us.

-Also, are Ontario FM physicians "capped" in any way in terms of earning potential? Are they "capped" in the number of patients they can see, etc.? Are there any hindrances that I should be aware of, etc.? (What about other provinces?)

Any clarifications you can give would be much appreciated. As always, your time is truly valued and appreciated!

Thanks!

[LittleDaisy]

13 minutes ago, blueskyguy said:

Hi all,

I am currently a second year Canadian student at a U.S. med school with interests in returning to Canada for FM. I was born and raised in Ontario, and that is where my family is located.

Few quick questions regarding the current state of healthcare (especially FM) in Ontario:

- How would you describe the current state of Ontario healthcare? I've heard people complaining about Ontario stuff on these forums, but I was always too young to understand what the actual problems were. Could you describe these problems to me, and have they changed at all?

- Has anything changed recently (or will change) regarding Ontario healthcare?

- Also, will any of this have any effect on me and my future in FM? Would you say that the future of FM in Ontario is bright? (I came across articles on the internet talking about "new contracts" being agreed upon in Ontario, including this one: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-new-ontario-doctors-contract-will-increase-health-spending-by-1/) I was hoping you could help me understand how these "new agreements" affect us.

-Also, are Ontario FM physicians "capped" in any way in terms of earning potential? Are they "capped" in the number of patients they can see, etc.? Are there any hindrances that I should be aware of, etc.? (What about other provinces?)

Any clarifications you can give would be much appreciated. As always, your time is truly valued and appreciated!

Thanks!

Hey there is no cap for Ontario FM physicians, the government does not control the number of patients you can see per day. Physicians are self-employed professionals, you don't really have a boss unless you decide to work in an academic hospital as a new junior staff (you are on probation or temporary privilege at the beginning)  or you work for governmental agencies (CHC, ministry of health, etc). 

[blueskyguy]

4 minutes ago, LittleDaisy said:

Hey there is no cap for Ontario FM physicians, the government does not control the number of patients you can see per day. Physicians are self-employed professionals, you don't really have a boss unless you decide to work in an academic hospital as a new junior staff (you are on probation or temporary privilege at the beginning)  or you work for governmental agencies (CHC, ministry of health, etc). 

Hey LittleDaisy! Thanks for the clarification.

Quick question: I see a lot of FM talk on these forums, including salaries and payments structures, etc. However, a lot of them refer to B.C. family medicine, and I am in Ontario. Would it be okay to assume that the salaries and payment structures between B.C. and Ontario are essentially the same (averages, etc.)? Or are there any notable differences between B.C. FM and Ontario FM that I am not aware of? (What about other provinces?)

[LittleDaisy]

51 minutes ago, blueskyguy said:

Hey LittleDaisy! Thanks for the clarification.

Quick question: I see a lot of FM talk on these forums, including salaries and payments structures, etc. However, a lot of them refer to B.C. family medicine, and I am in Ontario. Would it be okay to assume that the salaries and payment structures between B.C. and Ontario are essentially the same (averages, etc.)? Or are there any notable differences between B.C. FM and Ontario FM that I am not aware of? (What about other provinces?)

I actually don't know much about FM in BC. Someone else could chime in??

[blueoval177]

Provinces are in charge of the billing structure, codes, and practices payment structures and are not necessarily the same. From a FFS perspective they certainly do differ in how much they pay based on per code fee and what code(s) you can bill on a visit.

From what I understand, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, BC FFS GP you can bill 50 patients per day, 50-65 patients you get paid 1/2 the billing fee, 65+ you work for free. Bigger deal if you do walk-in clinic as part of your practice. There are some models for salary, blended, etc. community dependent.

Billing codes FFS pay less in BC then the prairie provinces, I'm not familiar with Ontario others have said it is less than MB/Alta/SK as well, somewhere in between. At the clinic I trained at in MB vs BC was 80-120k gross difference full time GP, depending on practice style. 

[deathvvv]

BC discloses all physician salary on their blue book. You can google it and see how much family docs make in bc. Overall (I don't have raw numbers with me), but Ontario docs makes about 15-20% more than BC. Prior to pay raises this year, the most common visit code billed (100 code in bc vs a007 in Ontario), BC pays you $31 for a 15 min standard visit and Ontario pay for 34. Also Ontario has the FHO model which is capitation which pays you for the number of patient you roster, but BC has a bunch of disease bonus codes. So the pay will vary depends on your clinic structure and payment model and scope of practice. But lets say if you do see standard 35 patients a day, minimal to no procedures, minimal to no complex care, Ontario beats out BC by 10-20%. 

[windsormd1]

Go to Alberta!