UAlberta vs UofT vs Queen's

[user123456]

Longtime lurker, first time poster. Congratulations everyone on your acceptances! I have narrowed down my choices to these 3 schools and was hoping for input. I did my undergrad at UofT and I'm really hoping to move to a smaller city and try somewhere new to live in. I also know that UofT is one of the best schools in Canada so I'm keep that in mind. I would appreciate anyone's advice, I'm having a lot of trouble with this. Here is what I have so far:

Alberta:

Pros:

• New city
• Very low cost (comes out to 100k for tuition for 4 years)
• Close to nature (Banff/Jasper)
• Good academic institution
• Relative moderate class size/good sense of community
• Early clinical exposure
• Good research opportunities

Cons:

• Moving across the country from support system
• Still a big city, rent is expensive
• Very far from family

UofT:

Pros:

• Toronto is one of the best cities in Canada
• Huge academic institution (great research opportunities)
• Every specialty imaginable is here (I'm undecided)
• Close to family

Cons:

• Huge class size
• City living sucks sometimes
• Very far from nature
• So many learners (students/residents/fellows)
• Very expensive tuition (27k)

Queen's:

Pros:

• Incredible sense of community
• Close to nature (school is literally on the lake), thousand islands nearby, many bike trails
• Low number of learners (easier to get observerships/research opportunities)
• Highest match rate in Canada (into competitive specialties, not just family)
• Med building is beautiful
• Variety of learning styles (didactic/case/clinical/observerships mandated)
• Small town, campus is beautiful
• Located in the downtown

Cons:

• Expensive tuition
• Moderately far from family/friends in Toronto (but not that bad)
• Hospitals are old
• Not many specialties (community hospitals)
• Not as many research opportunities

[QueenStan]

 

50 minutes ago, user123456 said:

Cons

• Not many specialties (community hospitals)
•  Not as many research opportunities

Queen's has every specialty at KGH? Not sure what you mean by that. Perhaps you meant more niche fellowships like neurosurgeon ped-onc? Or did you mean during clerkship? You will rotate through "satellite" hospitals for your clerkship rotations in things like fam med and EM if that's what you mean but I don't think that's exclusive to Queen's.

As for research opportunities you'd be surprised how easy it is to get them if you just ask. Less learners means more docs have research projects that aren't being picked up. I imagine other major centres probably still have more though, not sure I can compare since I've only attended one medical school.

Go where you'll be happy. While finances are important, I'd argue in the long run when you're making 300k a year 20k debt isn't going to be that big of a deal. Everyone is different though. Personally I'd rather attend a school that I'm happy with than save some cash on tuition, especially when they give out LOCs like candy.

[xiphoid]

Would second what QueenStan said. Med school can be quite tough sometimes, and being in a place that makes you happy overall makes it so much more manageable.

[user123456]

22 hours ago, QueenStan said:

 

Queen's has every specialty at KGH? Not sure what you mean by that. Perhaps you meant more niche fellowships like neurosurgeon ped-onc? Or did you mean during clerkship? You will rotate through "satellite" hospitals for your clerkship rotations in things like fam med and EM if that's what you mean but I don't think that's exclusive to Queen's.

As for research opportunities you'd be surprised how easy it is to get them if you just ask. Less learners means more docs have research projects that aren't being picked up. I imagine other major centres probably still have more though, not sure I can compare since I've only attended one medical school.

Go where you'll be happy. While finances are important, I'd argue in the long run when you're making 300k a year 20k debt isn't going to be that big of a deal. Everyone is different though. Personally I'd rather attend a school that I'm happy with than save some cash on tuition, especially when they give out LOCs like candy.

Oh sorry I just heard that there is less fellows/residency programs because Kingston's hospital system is smaller. I guess it was wrong then. So do finances not really matter in the long-run? I wouldn't want to work until I'm 70 or anything crazy like that so I'm wary of going into too much debt. Do you know if there is a document somewhere to see Queens' match locations? I'm just curious to see what students typically match to

[gangliocytoma]

6 minutes ago, user123456 said:

Oh sorry I just heard that there is less fellows/residency programs because Kingston's hospital system is smaller. I guess it was wrong then. So do finances not really matter in the long-run? I wouldn't want to work until I'm 70 or anything crazy like that so I'm wary of going into too much debt. Do you know if there is a document somewhere to see Queens' match locations? I'm just curious to see what students typically match to

Less fellows/residents isn't necessarily a bad thing, it means you're likely to get more direct time with the attending physician.

Check out CaRMs for match locations. Most QMED students end up matching outside of Kingston. 

[Aetherus]

I have attached the stats for Queens from 2018 (my year).

I would say that Queen’s prepares its students the best to excel in clerkship. Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions. 

 

[tryingnottogun]

2 hours ago, Aetherus said:

I have attached the stats for Queens from 2018 (my year).

I would say that Queen’s prepares its students the best to excel in clerkship. Feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions. 

 

Just wondering where we can find stats like this for other schools...

[ChemPetE]

carms.ca and hunt for match reports. Go nuts. Nationwide trends are most important, with very few exceptions. Most falls down to individuals and not schools, although something could potentially be said in 3 vs 4 yr programs and timing of electives. Knowing what I know now being done residency, I still wouldn’t place any part of choosing a med school on class match results, with the exception of if a school doesn’t have a home program in a residency I was gunning for, of which there are very few specific instances of that for rarer specialties, and some internal med sub specialties in sask/Manitoba. 

[Aetherus]

2 hours ago, xllan said:

Just wondering where we can find stats like this for other schools...

You can’t find such detailed match results unless you have someone on the inside compile it, which is what I did for 2018 at Queen’s. 

[prettypleaseacceptme]

Given your situation, it sounds like Queens would be the best fit for you. Small city with an incredible community, and close enough to Toronto if you ever feel like you need to be back in the busy big city to see friends or shop...etc. I have several friends at Queens med who appear to be extremely happy with the program as well

[Premed_Girl]

If I were in your situation, I would pick UofT. Not because of its name or its prestige.. but the school has endless opportunities. Since you are undecided, you will be exposed to various fields and will have the opportunity to shadow world-level physicians and work with them at some of the top hospitals in Canada and in the world. Also, the research opportunities here do not compare with other universities. Although I am not in their medical school yet (I do have multiple friends who are in the school though), I am completing my master's here (after doing research at 2 other universities) and have worked at some of the best facilities with top researchers, and in my two short years here I have published 5 papers in top journals, which I am sure will at least help me a little bit when I apply to residency etc. I don't think that I would have had this opportunity in other schools. Also, since you stated that you have family here, then maybe it's best that you stay close to them during this demanding time. Given the choice to attend this school, I would not pass up on it (or at least strongly consider it before choosing other schools). 

If you feel like moving away from Toronto then Alberta is very beautiful and it is also an amazing medical school. They are all great schools. The person above my post said that their friends are very happy at Queens, but I have friends at UofT (who also had to choose between multiple schools) that are extremely happy with their decision and love the school.

This is just my personal opinion which I hope helps you a bit. Needless to say that you should definitely choose the school where you see yourself happy in. Congratulations on multiple offers and wish you all the best

[xiphoid]

I go to Queen's, but I do research with Toronto faculty. I'd say that publishing as a higher author is a lot easier as a medical student at Queen's than at Toronto based on the experiences of friends of mine in upper years/grads at both schools just given that there are fewer learners (therefore less competition for opportunities), but of course all of this is based on how motivated you are. If you don't seek out opportunities, it isn't going to land in your lap even if you go to Toronto, and I think if you put the same amount of effort looking for research opportunities in Toronto as you do in Kingston, you may find more "success" in Kingston. Sure, your chances of publishing in higher IF journals are possibly slightly higher at Toronto, but unless it's Science/Nature/Cell/NEJM/JAMA, it doesn't really matter if you're publishing in journals with a IF of 13 versus IF of 15 (plus I've heard from more than a few residency program directors that research is just a checkbox anyways). Being a Queen's student also doesn't preclude you from doing research with Toronto faculty, especially if you have family in Toronto (since that means you'll probably make weekend trips and summers back in Toronto during preclerkship). You essentially expand on your pool of potential researchers you could work with, either Queen's or Toronto, whereas very few Toronto students will look for opportunities in Kingston unless they're from this city. Many of the Toronto faculty are also Queen's alum, and because of how tight-knit QMed is, I've found that they tend to be particularly receptive when I cold email/reach out for research or clinical opportunities. Kingston is a very manageable distance from Toronto, and many of my classmates go back every other weekend or so to see family and SOs. Queen's has also made a reputation for itself in Canada as having some of the best prepared clerks, which makes us stand out during our elective rotations and in turn helps a ton with CaRMS - I've heard from so many of the Toronto faculty I've shadowed that they're always super impressed with the Queen's elective students, much more so than from any other school. I'm not going to touch on the community and other aspects of QMed since you seem to know that already (plus you can find more info about that aspect in every single "why Queen's" thread!) but I'm happy to chat about Queen's if you want to message me. I personally do think Queen's is your best choice of the three given your preferences. (Plus, I think I'd just be super stressed out with having an exam every two weeks at Toronto, but perhaps that's just me.)

[LittleDaisy]

On 5/15/2019 at 5:16 PM, user123456 said:

Longtime lurker, first time poster. Congratulations everyone on your acceptances! I have narrowed down my choices to these 3 schools and was hoping for input. I did my undergrad at UofT and I'm really hoping to move to a smaller city and try somewhere new to live in. I also know that UofT is one of the best schools in Canada so I'm keep that in mind. I would appreciate anyone's advice, I'm having a lot of trouble with this. Here is what I have so far:

Alberta:

Pros:

• New city
• Very low cost (comes out to 100k for tuition for 4 years)
• Close to nature (Banff/Jasper)
• Good academic institution
• Relative moderate class size/good sense of community
• Early clinical exposure
• Good research opportunities

Cons:

• Moving across the country from support system
• Still a big city, rent is expensive
• Very far from family

UofT:

Pros:

• Toronto is one of the best cities in Canada
• Huge academic institution (great research opportunities)
• Every specialty imaginable is here (I'm undecided)
• Close to family

Cons:

• Huge class size
• City living sucks sometimes
• Very far from nature
• So many learners (students/residents/fellows)
• Very expensive tuition (27k)

Queen's:

Pros:

• Incredible sense of community
• Close to nature (school is literally on the lake), thousand islands nearby, many bike trails
• Low number of learners (easier to get observerships/research opportunities)
• Highest match rate in Canada (into competitive specialties, not just family)
• Med building is beautiful
• Variety of learning styles (didactic/case/clinical/observerships mandated)
• Small town, campus is beautiful
• Located in the downtown

Cons:

• Expensive tuition
• Moderately far from family/friends in Toronto (but not that bad)
• Hospitals are old
• Not many specialties (community hospitals)
• Not as many research opportunities

I think that I would pick UofT just because your family is in Toronto, and you are most likely to come back to Toronto for residency. If you are worried about the class size, you could pick Mississauga campus, which is smaller. 

Medical school could be tough, having friends and family around you is extremely helpful. There are a lot of learners everywhere in every academic hospital, if you want more learning experience, I would try to do a few electives at community hospitals. 

The tuition fees between Queens and UofT are around the same, UofT however provides bursaries on financial need basis to all of its undergraduate medical students (they have a lot of donors!) , and 50% of its medical students receive financial assistance, the maximum is 14,000 per year, which could help you save a lot. 

Congrats for your multiple acceptance!

[QueenStan]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:54 PM, user123456 said:

Oh sorry I just heard that there is less fellows/residency programs because Kingston's hospital system is smaller. I guess it was wrong then. So do finances not really matter in the long-run? I wouldn't want to work until I'm 70 or anything crazy like that so I'm wary of going into too much debt. Do you know if there is a document somewhere to see Queens' match locations? I'm just curious to see what students typically match to

Yup there are definitely less learners. What you may be referring to is something like the plastics department. We have a fully staffed department at KGH but no residency program so while you can still do clerkship rotations there you can't match to Queens in plastics. However, this is helpful in other ways since the docs don't have any residents to hand off research to.

The only reason you'll be working until 70 is if you want to. TBH you could pay off your debt in 5-10 years no problem if you decided that's what you wanted to do. Pick what makes you happy, if that's being with your family in UofT then do that. Don't get bogged down in the minor differences between schools.

[user123456]

3 hours ago, QueenStan said:

Yup there are definitely less learners. What you may be referring to is something like the plastics department. We have a fully staffed department at KGH but no residency program so while you can still do clerkship rotations there you can't match to Queens in plastics. However, this is helpful in other ways since the docs don't have any residents to hand off research to.

The only reason you'll be working until 70 is if you want to. TBH you could pay off your debt in 5-10 years no problem if you decided that's what you wanted to do. Pick what makes you happy, if that's being with your family in UofT then do that. Don't get bogged down in the minor differences between schools.

I think Queen's interests me the most because I'd rather have that small university town feeling since I never got them from going to undergrad in Toronto already. Thanks for the information, it's helped a lot!

[xiphoid]

9 hours ago, QueenStan said:

Yup there are definitely less learners. What you may be referring to is something like the plastics department. We have a fully staffed department at KGH but no residency program so while you can still do clerkship rotations there you can't match to Queens in plastics. However, this is helpful in other ways since the docs don't have any residents to hand off research to.

+1 I've been told by faculty at other schools that this can be quite a benefit because medical students are always bottom of the totem pole for opportunities (apart from premeds I guess). In places that don't have a residency program in that specialty, the bottom of the totem pole in terms of opportunities is a lot higher than if there were 10+ residents who get first dibs on projects, clinical teaching, presenting at rounds, etc. You'll get to know the faculty better --> better reference letters and CV --> better chances at CaRMS.