UofT dentistry now requires personal essays, CASPer

[GlassHalfFull]

Hey everybody,

I noticed that UofT requires submission of a personal statement of why you want to pursue dentistry and an essay of ones greatest accomplishment. Has this always been a requirement? If so, are they scored and assessed competitively?

[dentut2023]

Where are you seeing this requirement?

[GlassHalfFull]

3 hours ago, dentut2023 said:

Where are you seeing this requirement?

Under "how to apply", here's a copy/paste:

To apply to the Doctor of Dental Surgeryprogram, you must complete an online application form.

You have two paths for application to the Faculty of Dentistry at the University of Toronto. You may choose to apply through one of the following online application systems:

• UTDAS (University of Toronto Dental Application Service OR 
• AADSAS (American Dental Education Association (ADEA) Application Service. 

Please select the APPLICATION SERVICE of your choice by following the application form links, available on our APPLICATION page. 

In addition to the online application form, the following documents must be received by the Admissions Office by the December 1st application deadline:

• Non-refundable application service fee of $ 275.00 CDN payable to the University of Toronto. Payment may be made by credit card, bank draft, or money order. Please note that we are unable to accept personal cheques or cash.
• Proof of citizenship (if applicable), i.e. Canadian citizenship or permanent resident status (photocopy only).
• Personal statement explaining why you want to pursue a dental career. Do not exceed two pages.
• Essay outlining what you consider to be your greatest accomplishment and the reasons you have chosen to highlight it. Do not exceed one page. 

These documents can be mailed directly, faxed to: (416) 979-4944 or sent via e-mail to: admissions@dentistry.utoronto.ca as an attachment. 

[dentut2023]

Best bet is to email the admissions office I’m guessing. I applied for the 2019 sep cycle and was accepted, but don’t remember seeing that. It might be something new :/

[Chaxon]

Yeah that’s pretty weird. Maybe it’s new?

[SK~]

Yeah, I believe it’s new. It wasn’t there when I applied in December of 2018. Also, I didn’t have to use the application services listed.

[Chaxon]

I wonder how much it’s weighed. I don’t think it’s there to make the process easier, just another way to eliminate applicants from the pool lol. Gotta keep jumping through those hoops...

[dentut2023]

That’s super unfortunate, one of the reasons I applied to UofT and not UWO is because of all the personal statements and such. Good luck with preparing for them!

[GlassHalfFull]

UPDATE: UofT dentistry now requires CASPer too. 

[Chaxon]

Damn these guys are all on the McMaster bandwagon. Pretty lame. I hope UofA doesn’t add in these steps.

I wonder if all Canadian universities are making money off of the MMI and Casper company like McMaster is. Wouldn’t be too surprised.

[X Æ A-12]

32 minutes ago, Chaxon said:

I wonder if all Canadian universities are making money off of the MMI and Casper company like McMaster is. Wouldn’t be too surprised.

Take your tinfoil hat off buddy, MMI is just a way interviews are done there's no company. The company that runs CASPer has no relation to the universities. McMaster did invent both tho and the reason schools are adopting them is because they work at screening applicants that succeed in their program

[Chaxon]

Damn eh. I was just reading something on google and BeMos website. It had a bunch of information saying they’re linked and it’s a conflict of interest etc. I guess they’re wrong then??

also saw saomething sayign they have a lot of bias. Hopefully they improve but the process is very biased apparently.

[cleanup]

Good. There are a lot of people in dentistry who know how to read a book and regurgitate facts and numbers, but have no idea how to be empathic, relate to people, be authentic, etc.

Not that I'm saying a personal statement and CASPer suddenly makes a robust, ironclad admissions process, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Chaxon]

Maybe. But I’ve been extremely honest in the admission process and been scored low. Instantaneoulsy on one station. Maybe it’s the way I package my response but I worked on it, after my first attempt (insignificant improvement, still improved though). 

Now I plan on getting a int. tutor and Improving which I will. No cap. 

Hey Swoman, no response? Cutie pie.

[Fentist]

Do you guys think western will see more applicants this year because of the UofT changes? 

[cleanup]

11 hours ago, Chaxon said:

Maybe. But I’ve been extremely honest in the admission process and been scored low. Instantaneoulsy on one station. Maybe it’s the way I package my response but I worked on it, after my first attempt (insignificant improvement, still improved though). 

Now I plan on getting a int. tutor and Improving which I will. No cap. 

Hey Swoman, no response? Cutie pie.

Not to play devil's advocate, but maybe that's the process at work. Do you think you're entitled to a good score? Why do you think so?

I've never done an MMI or taken a CASPer test. When I was being admitted to dental school, to be frank, I doubt I would have done well. I was an anxious, entitled, immature little shit (still am in a few ways! ). I'm sure I would do better now, not because I've been practicing how to get into school, that phase is long behind me, but because I've simply gone through a lot in life since and have gained a significant amount of wisdom and experience. 

Admissions committees understand that wisdom, insight, integrity, empathy, tact and any number of other traits they want don't simply appear out of nowhere and that they're already rare to find in the majority of adults, never mind a 22-year-old school applicant, but these tools are just imperfect ways of trying to make the process a little more insightful.

Regardless of your opinions on the validity of MMI/CASPer (which indeed are probably biased by the fact that you have scored low on them), you have to admit that the old system of GPA/DAT + CDA interview is pretty piss poor in terms of selecting people that have the potential to be good clinicians, especially because most of dental school is spent teaching you how to read and memorize things, rather than teaching you how to care for people.

[Chaxon]

Youre absolutely correct. I do believe this is all part of the process and do trust it. But I’m used to saying things the way they are and being a straight shooter. At some stations I believed that backfired, that’s all. Hopefully it was just the way I said it and I can improve that.

in terms of admissions processes I think Casper mmi are just highly subjective, where as GPA and Dat are not. That’s why I believe those are a more superior way of gaining admission.

After all, dental school is 4 years and costs a lot. So we’re paying them not only to memorize but also mold us into strong clinicians personality wise. Otherwise why not just read books and become a dentist haha

[cleanup]

9 minutes ago, Chaxon said:

Youre absolutely correct. I do believe this is all part of the process and do trust it. But I’m used to saying things the way they are and being a straight shooter. At some stations I believed that backfired, that’s all. Hopefully it was just the way I said it and I can improve that.

in terms of admissions processes I think Casper mmi are just highly subjective, where as GPA and Dat are not. That’s why I believe those are a more superior way of gaining admission.

After all, dental school is 4 years and costs a lot. So we’re paying them not only to memorize but also mold us into strong clinicians personality wise. Otherwise why not just read books and become a dentist haha

You'll have to give me an example if you want my opinion, but you should absolutely tell it like it is (at least how you see it). The biggest thing that interviewers can smell is insincerity. I believe people grossly underestimate how much authenticity matters in their interviews. You could spew utter bullshit but if you do it in the right way, you'll still have a few fans. Not necessarily in a medical school admissions interview, but in the grand scheme of things, that's how the nature of persuasion, trust, seduction, and all sorts of things work.

Of course they're subjective. They're qualitative rather than quantitative. That means they also test entirely different things, which means you can't compare GPA/DAT to interview scores. Neither are perfectly objective or standardized, but at least at the threshold of the admissions committee, one is fixed, the other is open to interpretation, but that is by virtue of their very nature. Comparing the two is pointless. They're both parts of the whole.

In reality, you're paying for the piece of paper that says "Dr. Chaxon". The instruction/education is what you make of it, and is just a means to an end. That's beside the point we're discussing though, unless you're trying to argue that "They're supposed to teach me this because $$$," rather than "I'm already supposed to be at least somewhat this"... once again, I think that's a view biased by the fact that something new is required of you, something you may not have currently. The school has an ethical (and practical) obligation to uphold a certain standard, and guess what? They get to decide where the buck stops.

Work with what you can control, not what you can't. It's an entitled and foolish mindset that thinks "But it should be so" rather than "What should I do".

 

[Chaxon]

Well based on my experience the dental clinic I go to, there’s two dentists. Sometimes I get the more outgoing one sometimes the less outgoing guy who just say Hi. My objective of going to the dentists is more just about getting work done correctly and to high standards. 

The whole persuasion, trust, seduction stuff I feel is more in a sales or door knocking setting in my experience. But I understand that people are paying a lot of money so those factors will matter in some scenarios (no insurance, scared of the dentists, bad experiences etc). 

Imma continue to work on myself and I’ll be fine.

It’s actually a positive experience that I didn’t get in. Firstly it humbles you and secondly it makes you appreciate other things in your life, realizing dental isn’t everything and the adm. processes arent perfect. 

Lets these guys get back to there discussion now lmao.

[cleanup]

14 minutes ago, Chaxon said:

Well based on my experience the dental clinic I go to, there’s two dentists. Sometimes I get the more outgoing one sometimes the less outgoing guy who just say Hi. My objective of going to the dentists is more just about getting work done correctly and to high standards. 

The whole persuasion, trust, seduction stuff I feel is more in a sales or door knocking setting in my experience. But I understand that people are paying a lot of money so those factors will matter in some scenarios (no insurance, scared of the dentists, bad experiences etc). 

Imma continue to work on myself and I’ll be fine.

It’s actually a positive experience that I didn’t get in. Firstly it humbles you and secondly it makes you appreciate other things in your life, realizing dental isn’t everything and the adm. processes arent perfect. 

Lets these guys get back to there discussion now lmao.

I've been practicing for a decent amount of time now. My patients have no idea what's going on inside their mouth unless I show them and tell them. They don't come to me because I have the best hand skills or technical knowledge of anyone around. I very assuredly do not. They come to me because they trust me, and that has far, far more to do with the way I treat them as a person and the way I speak to them; it has almost nothing to do with dentistry.

I didn't bring up persuasion, trust, seduction as 'goals' or 'outcomes' to focus on. Those are just side effects of authenticity. I'm just pointing out how human psychology works. I'm not telling you to sell yourself. I'm advising you to do the complete opposite.

[Chaxon]

I can appreciate that. Usually my convo with my dentist is just: You’re all good, Any questions? And I’ll ask a couple then it’s done. And he’s on to his next patient. Obviously patient to patient will vary.

for Comparison the walk in clinic I go to when I need meds is pretty similar. Basically walk up grab one of those numbers. Sign in when your number is called. Then go to the room and wait for a doc. He comes in tell him the issues and he’s gone in 3mins max. As a patient I actually enjoy the quick service. 

And I never really picked the dentists or docs based on there communication skills lol.  Its just where I go because that’s where my parents took me as a kid. All the billing etc. set up. Pretty simple process on my behalf. 

[noface]

This is new starting this year? :O oh my