Dentist Hours

[Sofaden]

Does anyone know what the average hours dentists are pulling nowadays? Of course it is a personal decision depending on many factors, but I was wondering what most people find to be the sweet spot to prevent burnout/hurting your body.

Thanks!

[Prolene]

I heard it's about 24-30 hours to live very comfortably but it depends on your age and experience. I personally know a dentist that's 60 and is practicing 18 hours a week while another dentist I know who is 28 is working 36 hours a week.

[Sofaden]

Do you know if it's better to pile long hours onto fewer days, or spread them out and work more days? Or is it just one's personal preference?

[human instinct]

I do about 30 hours of actual dentistry with 1hr of lunch every day. That's 4 days a week. Could probably shorten it into 3 longer days. However I would probably find it very difficult to wake up to go to work for those longer days. Everybody is different, some people prefer just doing 3 longer days while others like a more normal 9-5 type of week. Family priorities also play a role. If you are single, it maybe easier to pull off longer days, however if you are a parent, then you may not get to see your little ones on those longer days just to put things into perspective.

[Sofaden]

Thanks for your reply! Just a question - do you think clinics/dentists will start preferring dentists working longer hour days in order to be competitive in this crazy market? (E.g. be open outside normal work hours)

[cleanup]

39 minutes ago, Sofaden said:

Thanks for your reply! Just a question - do you think clinics/dentists will start preferring dentists working longer hour days in order to be competitive in this crazy market? (E.g. be open outside normal work hours)

That's very much already a thing and has been for years. Evenings/weekends are the norm for associates. 

[Sofaden]

Is the norm for associates working evenings something like 9AM-8PM mon-fri vs a 9-5 or do they just work fewer days to offset the longer hours each weekday? Although I suppose it probably depends on the practice.

[Ostracized]

My schedule in Toronto is 1-9 on M,Tu,W and 9-4 on Sat/Sun.  

It’s crummy lifestyle schedule.  But weekends are the busiest times.  

[cleanup]

10 hours ago, Sofaden said:

Is the norm for associates working evenings something like 9AM-8PM mon-fri vs a 9-5 or do they just work fewer days to offset the longer hours each weekday? Although I suppose it probably depends on the practice.

Depends on the practice, I doubt many people are working 9-8 5 days a week, not just out of 'it's too hard' but also because it would be rare for a clinic to be able to support a single dentist doing those types of hours 5 days a week.

I work 8-8 two days a week and 8-2 one day a week.

[Sofaden]

If you don't mind my asking, do you find that to be a difficult lifestyle to maintain? If something came up that required you to change your hours to be more available in the evenings (childcare for example), how easy would it be to switch? Or does that also depend on the clinic haha

[McMarauder]

I work 9am-7pm  4 days a week, and 9-5 2 saturdays a month.  So i only really get wednesday and saturday off.  it's not the greatest, but the day off during the week allows my wife to go to work (she's also a dentist), and I get to spend time with my kid.  the flexibility of your hours are dependant on the clinic.

[cleanup]

1 hour ago, Sofaden said:

If you don't mind my asking, do you find that to be a difficult lifestyle to maintain? If something came up that required you to change your hours to be more available in the evenings (childcare for example), how easy would it be to switch? Or does that also depend on the clinic haha

It has its up sides and down sides. I do this because I live about 90 km from where I work, so the commute is long (between 50 min to 1 hr 20 min depending on traffic), so I'd rather work fewer days and longer days. However, I can get pretty brain-dead during those 12 hour shifts. Physically tired yes, but mentally tired is the bigger concern. It's hard to keep an upbeat, focused, multi-tasking mindset the whole time, manage yourself, your patients, and your staff constantly. It's a busy clinic. So I need occasional breaks, maybe book longer appointments, I need to meditate and reset throughout the day. It's a marathon. But the benefit is that I enjoy a lot of time off as well.

At the moment I'm single and have no family so it's easily doable. At some point that may change indeed, but i think it's more dependent on yourself than anything else. Some of the other dentists in my practice who have children and family lives still work 12 hour shifts, but they live much closer to work and balance it with their partners.

[VivaColombia]

Random question but how do vacations work? Is it tough to schedule it on short notice? 

[cleanup]

4 minutes ago, VivaColombia said:

Random question but how do vacations work? Is it tough to schedule it on short notice? 

Short notice, yes. Long notice, no. My contract states I can take 4 weeks off. But it's all fluid and dependent on the office. I think the biggest thing is guilt. 

The downfall of being an associate is you get stuck with the longer/shittier/weekend hours the owners/partners don't want, and while they have free reign to do what they like with their schedule, take time off on a short notice, if you do it it reflects poorly on you, so best to give a lot of notice and keep it reasonable.

This is in huge contrast to medicine where you can have very, very cushy vacation terms. I have a friend who is in radiology, his starting salary will be in the high 6 figures (nearing 7), and he'll get FIFTEEN weeks of paid vacation. That's over 3 months. He'll work 8-5 4x days a week.

Indeed, the labour market for dentistry is ballooning; gone are the days of 8-4, 5 days a week, plenty of vacation, etc. You have to adapt.

[Lactic Folly]

(A bit off topic: Yes, in a group practice setting, if there are enough colleagues to cover, one can take more time off -- but the remainder of your friend's terms sound off to me unless there's an unmentioned catch. Have him report back once the job starts...)

[cleanup]

1 hour ago, Lactic Folly said:

(A bit off topic: Yes, in a group practice setting, if there are enough colleagues to cover, one can take more time off -- but the remainder of your friend's terms sound off to me unless there's an unmentioned catch. Have him report back once the job starts...)

I believe the fifteen weeks includes personal days. It's 12 weeks paid vacation and like 21-24 days of personal days.

[Lvl3sonly]

5 hours ago, cleanup said:

Short notice, yes. Long notice, no. My contract states I can take 4 weeks off. But it's all fluid and dependent on the office. I think the biggest thing is guilt. 

The downfall of being an associate is you get stuck with the longer/shittier/weekend hours the owners/partners don't want, and while they have free reign to do what they like with their schedule, take time off on a short notice, if you do it it reflects poorly on you, so best to give a lot of notice and keep it reasonable.

This is in huge contrast to medicine where you can have very, very cushy vacation terms. I have a friend who is in radiology, his starting salary will be in the high 6 figures (nearing 7), and he'll get FIFTEEN weeks of paid vacation. That's over 3 months. He'll work 8-5 4x days a week.

Indeed, the labour market for dentistry is ballooning; gone are the days of 8-4, 5 days a week, plenty of vacation, etc. You have to adapt.

I really wish I had done more research before blindly going into dental school because I was too lazy to do my due diligence between med and dent job markets.

[cleanup]

1 minute ago, Lvl3sonly said:

I really wish I had done more research before blindly going into dental school because I was too lazy to do my due diligence between med and dent job markets.

Well, it's not like the medical job market is that great (especially these days); it's exceedingly competitive. Never mind just trying to get into a radiology programme, but being competitive for jobs in a saturated market like the GTA is not easy. You really have to be at the top of your game and have good connections; you're competing with the best of the best.

Comparatively, it's much easier to get to where I am, and I do well above average for a typical Toronto-area general practice associate.

[Lactic Folly]

1 hour ago, cleanup said:

I believe the fifteen weeks includes personal days. It's 12 weeks paid vacation and like 21-24 days of personal days.

If there are a number of days off promised in the contract on a set salary, it should not make any practical difference what they are called. Still sounds too generous for the workload - can't see how a group wouldn't sustain a healthy deficit on that offer, unless it's a true govt salary that for some reason needs to offer significant incentive, or the position is actually responsible for the entire volume of work that comes in between 8-5 (which may be significantly different from what a new grad can reasonably complete within that timeframe).

This might point to one advantage of dental hours, as most fields in medicine are not hour-based (outside of select positions such as hospitalists) and as a result do not have entirely controllable hours - you work until everything that needs to be done that day is done, regardless of how long it takes, and might mean taking paperwork, etc. home on a regular basis.

[Sofaden]

 

47 minutes ago, cleanup said:

Well, it's not like the medical job market is that great (especially these days); it's exceedingly competitive. Never mind just trying to get into a radiology programme, but being competitive for jobs in a saturated market like the GTA is not easy. You really have to be at the top of your game and have good connections; you're competing with the best of the best.

Comparatively, it's much easier to get to where I am, and I do well above average for a typical Toronto-area general practice associate.

For the "it's comparatively easier to get to where you are" part, I heard with all the competition, even finding associate positions is difficult. Is that just a normal "every field is saturated nowadays" thing, or is it bad enough to reconsider going to dental school?

[Chaxon]

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side.

[cleanup]

4 hours ago, Sofaden said:

 

For the "it's comparatively easier to get to where you are" part, I heard with all the competition, even finding associate positions is difficult. Is that just a normal "every field is saturated nowadays" thing, or is it bad enough to reconsider going to dental school?

In the few years since I've graduated til now, the job market has changed drastically in southern Ontario. I have no idea what it'll be like in another 4 years.

[#YOLO]

damn steins gate lucked out with his offers. 4 days and 700k fuggg im jelly

[Sofaden]

2 hours ago, cleanup said:

In the few years since I've graduated til now, the job market has changed drastically in southern Ontario. I have no idea what it'll be like in another 4 years.

Could you go into how it's changed in a little more detail? Is it just people working longer hours?

[Lvl3sonly]

17 hours ago, Sofaden said:

Could you go into how it's changed in a little more detail? Is it just people working longer hours?

It's not really longer hours, it's just shittier hours. Associates working evenings and weekends is extremely common in big saturated cities like Vancouver and Toronto. I don't think I know a single classmate working in the city who does normal M-F 9-5 hours. 

To get those kind of hours you have to work rural.