Jump to content
Premed 101 Forums
DeeplySuperficial

Where to look for job opportunities

Recommended Posts

Hello...I'm a MS2 still undecided about which specialty I want to go into. Job opportunities is something I want to consider while selecting a specialty because, I do not want to be unemployed or face difficulty finding a job in the Toronto area. What is a good place to look for jobs listings to gauge what the job market is like for different specialties? I thought HFO was a good source, but then I heard that not all jobs are publicly posted. Is that right? Any help is much appreciated, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By far, most opportunities are not posted publically - if they are, it's either a hard to fill position, or it's a formality but the group already knows who they are bringing on. I've heard that if you apply to job postings via a job board, your application is basically rejected as you may seem too desparate. It actually really sucks trying to navigate the physician job market while in training, as it's not transparant at all...

That being said, the best way to guage the job market is to ask newly-finished staff or senior level residents. You can get some idea of the overall job market from the CMA website (https://www.cma.ca/canadian-specialty-profiles) but know that this is only a snapshot in time and not the complete picture.

If you want to specialize, unless you are an academic superstar or have powerful connections, you will probably have to move outside of Toronto. If you absolutely need to stay in Toronto (for family reasons, or maybe you've never seen any other part of Canada...) then I would stay extremely general (family practice, psychiatry, general internal medicine, or general pediatrics). For example, I'm no academic superstar and I have no connections, so I will be moving three provinces away to set up my GI practice next year in a small city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2019 at 9:49 AM, The Ace of Spades said:

By far, most opportunities are not posted publically - if they are, it's either a hard to fill position, or it's a formality but the group already knows who they are bringing on. I've heard that if you apply to job postings via a job board, your application is basically rejected as you may seem too desparate. It actually really sucks trying to navigate the physician job market while in training, as it's not transparant at all...

That being said, the best way to guage the job market is to ask newly-finished staff or senior level residents. You can get some idea of the overall job market from the CMA website (https://www.cma.ca/canadian-specialty-profiles) but know that this is only a snapshot in time and not the complete picture.

If you want to specialize, unless you are an academic superstar or have powerful connections, you will probably have to move outside of Toronto. If you absolutely need to stay in Toronto (for family reasons, or maybe you've never seen any other part of Canada...) then I would stay extremely general (family practice, psychiatry, general internal medicine, or general pediatrics). For example, I'm no academic superstar and I have no connections, so I will be moving three provinces away to set up my GI practice next year in a small city.

How do you find your job positions during residency for specialty residents? Is it mostly by word of mouth? or working during residency hoping to get into an academic job center?

Most people are not academic superstars, as we just want to get by and finish residency and set up independent practice :)

I think that in primary care, we usually go by job postings on HFO website, family medicine job opportunities website, locum websites etc; or sometimes from friends or mentors. Usually the job postings are reliable and the physicians looking for locums last minute are genuine and quite desperate for you to join their practice. I don't think that if you apply to job postings via a job board, it seems desperate? at least for family medicine? It seems that most people apply through job board postings, or sometimes just a simple email to set up an informal interview? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, NLengr said:

If you absolutely need to stay in Toronto, pick family. Everything else is a gamble.

I honestly wish I had been smart enough to choose family. Living where you don't want to be suuuuuuuuucks. 

 

I must say that I have been learning a lot from you and have been finding your posts very insightful -thank you for being so honest and sharing your thoughts. 

Would you say that for residency as well or just for when you become a staff? How tolerable is living in a city you don't like or far from family for 3-4 years? This is an important conversation we all need to have with our selves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, daleader said:

 

I must say that I have been learning a lot from you and have been finding your posts very insightful -thank you for being so honest and sharing your thoughts. 

Would you say that for residency as well or just for when you become a staff? How tolerable is living in a city you don't like or far from family for 3-4 years? This is an important conversation we all need to have with our selves.

Thanks. I try to at least provide insight from my own experiences. My life isn't this story of perfection and total happiness like the med schools tell you staff life will be like. 

Residency is do-able because it is finite. And you are very busy so it's not like your social life is blossoming as a resident. 

The only caveat to that is if you are planning on having kids in residency, it will be harder away from family. However, we had two kids in residency we had one of my spouses siblings in the same city but that was it. Both sets of grandparents (who are your ultimate help when you have kids) were in another province. It was hard but do-able with effort. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking from a family medicine perspective: people were throwing job offers at us during relevant conferences like FMF. Most recruiters will get your email and send any upcoming job opportunities as well. I don't know how competitive yet (PGY2) but I kept in touch with places I enjoyed electives in through clerkship and some are sending out offers, so that might be a way, too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Word of mouth and networking usually opened the best doors. It's not like medical school or residency where there is a rigid system in place.

I would've hated to go through the crucible of residency to not end up with an good work situation. Keep that in mind when choosing a field as life is more than just medicine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone for for your honest answers. I really appreciate it. Due to family reasons, I would prefer to stay in Toronto during residency and definitely need to work in the Greater Toronto Area upon completing residency.

Family medicine is definitely something I am strongly considering. 

@NLengr what do you think about General Peds, GIM, Neurology and Ophthalmology if I'd like to stay in Toronto?  

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DeeplySuperficial said:

Thank you everyone for for your honest answers. I really appreciate it. Due to family reasons, I would prefer to stay in Toronto during residency and definitely need to work in the Greater Toronto Area upon completing residency.

Family medicine is definitely something I am strongly considering. 

@NLengr what do you think about General Peds, GIM, Neurology and Ophthalmology if I'd like to stay in Toronto?  

Thanks.

I'm not in Toronto, and have never had any desire to live there, so it's hard to be specific. 

In general, the more generalized the specialty, the easier it is to find work. Similarly, the less you rely on hospital resources, the easier it is to get work. 

Optho is probably very tight in Toronto. I think it is pretty right everywhere. I hear new grads struggle to get adequate OR time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2019 at 3:08 PM, DeeplySuperficial said:

Thank you everyone for for your honest answers. I really appreciate it. Due to family reasons, I would prefer to stay in Toronto during residency and definitely need to work in the Greater Toronto Area upon completing residency.

Family medicine is definitely something I am strongly considering. 

@NLengr what do you think about General Peds, GIM, Neurology and Ophthalmology if I'd like to stay in Toronto?  

Thanks.

Family, psych, FRCP (not CCFP) EM. Those are your choices. Pick one.

 

Do not pick path. UHN and other hospital behemoths recruit foreign trained desperate pathologists who accept submarket salaries. the few private labs there, which pay fair fee schedule rates, are only accessible by word of mouth offers. Surgery too. You'll be doing locums and call until you get a spot somewhere, and even then you'll probably have to know someone or be hot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DeeplySuperficial said:

Thank you everyone!!

One more question...I like clinical research and academic work. Is there any hope of getting such jobs in Toronto in Fam med/Psych/GIM? I plan on doing fellowship/masters.

Family Med and Psych jobs might be easier to get by as an academic staff in Toronto. You will start as a lecturer, and hopefully to climb up as an assistant professor if you are site PD---> associate professor. Professorship is hard to get and people usually want to get it because of the pension and benefits you receive as an employee of UofT. 

They have started to ask for Masters for people straight out of graduation and who want to do full time academic FM and Psych.

For GIM, it is possible, you will have to 5 year GIM and minimum of Master, and some involvement in QI, Medical Education of clinical research. I think that jobs might be tighter in Academic GIM as they don't have many spots. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DeeplySuperficial said:

Thank you everyone!!

One more question...I like clinical research and academic work. Is there any hope of getting such jobs in Toronto in Fam med/Psych/GIM? I plan on doing fellowship/masters.

Jobs in academic GIM at UofT (aka Toronto) are also very tight, and they will only get much tighter in the next 5-10 years (when you will be finished and looking for a job). As stated above by LittleDaisy about the requirements. Even if you do those, you will be a Clinical associate for 1-5 years where you pay a tax of all your billings to the group and get NONE of their benefits, until one day they decide to take you on as a full time faculty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, ACHQ said:

Jobs in academic GIM at UofT (aka Toronto) are also very tight, and they will only get much tighter in the next 5-10 years (when you will be finished and looking for a job). As stated above by LittleDaisy about the requirements. Even if you do those, you will be a Clinical associate for 1-5 years where you pay a tax of all your billings to the group and get NONE of their benefits, until one day they decide to take you on as a full time faculty.

I still can't believe that there are people who are willing do the clinical associates for 1-5 years, get a pay cut and facing job uncertainties. 

Those years of being a clinical associate is a constant daily interview, as after periodic review, they may decide to let you go, let you stay but still status quo, or promote you to a full-time hospital academic staff. At UofT, they have let go clinical associates in the past with no flagrant red flags. 

I am fully impressed by people who are willing to undergo this route. To OP, you have to be really sure that academic medicine is really what you want to do and you can't see other ways out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2019 at 2:44 PM, GrouchoMarx said:

Family, psych, FRCP (not CCFP) EM. Those are your choices. Pick one.

 

Do not pick path. UHN and other hospital behemoths recruit foreign trained desperate pathologists who accept submarket salaries. the few private labs there, which pay fair fee schedule rates, are only accessible by word of mouth offers. Surgery too. You'll be doing locums and call until you get a spot somewhere, and even then you'll probably have to know someone or be hot.

Why not CCFP-EM for all the community hospitals?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...