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Pakoon

IP status for Saskatchewan med new trend?

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Hey everyone, a trend I noticed with many undergrad students I've chatted with is the new trend of moving to Saskatchewan for undergraduate, doing it there and getting IP and applying to medschool. I've been hearing about it and even know people who personally left to do undergraduate there, it's enough to put a question on my mind.  how viable of an option is this and what are the draw backs or limitations people don't realize about this strategy? From the way it's been described to me, it almost seems like a fool proof way of securing medical school in Canada.( For the record I'm from Ontario and know next to nothing about med in Saskatchewan or its admission process)

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Sask IP is by far the easiest place to get into med in Canada (looking at both acceptance rate % and average stats of those accepted compared to anywhere else)...and like you said you can go undergrad there and get IP status....it's actually a genius way to exponentially increase your chances of admission (by doing UG there)...I personally know a couple of people of did that and actually got into med after 2 years of undergrad (back when Sask allowed IP to apply after 2 years of UG a few years ago)...Sask does not consider ECs/volunteering/research etc and the average MCAT of accepted students was 501 in 2016..you can even look at the acceptance threads and /or stats released by Sask...there are people getting in with a 496 MCAT and 76% GPA which is jaw dropping when people from other schools don't get invites with much much higher stats...sad really.

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10 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

Sask IP is by far the easiest place to get into med in Canada (looking at both acceptance rate % and average stats of those accepted compared to anywhere else)...and like you said you can go undergrad there and get IP status....it's actually a genius way to exponentially increase your chances of admission (by doing UG there)...I personally know a couple of people of did that and actually got into med after 2 years of undergrad (back when Sask allowed IP to apply after 2 years of UG a few years ago)...Sask does not consider ECs/volunteering/research etc and the average MCAT of accepted students was 501 in 2016..you can even look at the acceptance threads and /or stats released by Sask...there are people getting in with a 496 MCAT and 76% GPA which is jaw dropping when people from other schools don't get invites with much much higher stats...sad really.

I just find it strange that such a fool proof plan has no regulations, risks or limitations. Most people I know personally who do it leave the second they get a chance for residency. Correct me if I'm wrong but that draining of physicians from the Province can't be a good thing, I wonder if a ROS style method should be put into effect, or something similar to westerns SWOMEN bonus which requires all of highschool in the area.

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44 minutes ago, Pakoon said:

I just find it strange that such a fool proof plan has no regulations, risks or limitations. Most people I know personally who do it leave the second they get a chance for residency. Correct me if I'm wrong but that draining of physicians from the Province can't be a good thing, I wonder if a ROS style method should be put into effect, or something similar to westerns SWOMEN bonus which requires all of highschool in the area.

A SWOMEN-like initiative would not work since for some reason they do not have enough IP people interested enough/qualified enough to apply. They interview up to 80% of IP that apply due to the lack of qualified IP applicants...I'm not sure about the logistics/feasibility of a ROS style method. But as someone from another province who has been rejected from meds 4 times with much higher stats than what Sask IP needs for admission, this really frustrates/angers me..

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On 8/19/2019 at 11:48 PM, YesIcan55 said:

Sask IP is by far the easiest place to get into med in Canada (looking at both acceptance rate % and average stats of those accepted compared to anywhere else)...and like you said you can go undergrad there and get IP status....it's actually a genius way to exponentially increase your chances of admission (by doing UG there)...I personally know a couple of people of did that and actually got into med after 2 years of undergrad (back when Sask allowed IP to apply after 2 years of UG a few years ago)...Sask does not consider ECs/volunteering/research etc and the average MCAT of accepted students was 501 in 2016..you can even look at the acceptance threads and /or stats released by Sask...there are people getting in with a 496 MCAT and 76% GPA which is jaw dropping when people from other schools don't get invites with much much higher stats...sad really.

It's not the fact that someone with much higher stats doesn't deserve to get in. It's the fact that U of S values DIVERSITY. I know many people who were accepted into U of S with a 80% average and around a 23rd percentile MCAT and they will be amazing physicians. Marks are not the deciding factor of wether or not they will be a great physician. I find this post of yours very discourteous. 

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15 minutes ago, BarbellsAndBicarb said:

It's not the fact that someone with much higher stats doesn't deserve to get in. It's the fact that U of S values DIVERSITY. I know many people who were accepted into U of S with a 80% average and around a 23rd percentile MCAT and they will be amazing physicians. Marks are not the deciding factor of wether or not they will be a great physician. I find this post of yours very discourteous. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but U of S doesn't look at extracirriculars or experinces to my knowledge. If this is the case, than how can it be argued that they value diversity?

IMO the MMI cannot thoroughly select for diverse applicants or those with unique experinces on its own.The only thing I could see in regards to them valuing diversity would be having seats for rural and indigenous applicants, but I am personally unaware of how many seats they reserve for each of those. I understand the need to keep physicians within Sask, and obviously if you train someone born in Sask they are more likely to practice there.

With all that being said, I don't think it is fair to say that a value on diversity explains the relatively low stats for IP matriculants. Evidence points to the source of this being lower amounts of competition.

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51 minutes ago, BarbellsAndBicarb said:

It's not the fact that someone with much higher stats doesn't deserve to get in. It's the fact that U of S values DIVERSITY. I know many people who were accepted into U of S with a 80% average and around a 23rd percentile MCAT and they will be amazing physicians. Marks are not the deciding factor of wether or not they will be a great physician. I find this post of yours very discourteous. 

I know many people with high GPA's, high MCAT's, great EC's who have done multiple degrees and have been applying to Canadian medical schools 4+ times and have yet to get accepted. These people will make amazing physicians but are being shut out by the system every year. And you're telling me that someone with a low GPA, very low MCAT, and no need to demonstrate EC's in the application process, who can waltz into UofS on their first try, will be an amazing physician....that is enraging. Plus, as the poster above said if you don't even consider EC's / work experience /etc you can't give me the diversity excuse...

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13 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

I know many people with high GPA's, high MCAT's, great EC's who have done multiple degrees and have been applying to Canadian medical schools 4+ times and have yet to get accepted. These people will make amazing physicians but are being shut out by the system every year. And you're telling me that someone with a low GPA, very low MCAT, and no need to demonstrate EC's in the application process, who can waltz into UofS on their first try, will be an amazing physician....that is enraging. Plus, as the poster above said if you don't even consider EC's / work experience /etc you can't give me the diversity excuse...

You're absolutely correct, U of S doesn't care about work experience or EC's. But you really think that they would accept someone into their medical school if they weren't able to communicate properly with an individual to pass the interview? You do know that the interview is 50% of admission? Sure, there are applicants with outstanding grades but they do a piss poor job with communication. I first hand have had experience with residents and physicians who can't communicate properly with their colleagues and patients which leads to a nurse/paramedic running their ER for them. 

You do know that diversity isn't necessarily EC's? If you guys would go a little more in-depth in research about this particular medical school you would know that they have seats specifically for those who come from a lower household income. Who have had more barriers in their way of being able to achieve high grades. 

They offer 5 seats for DSAAP and 6 for Aboriginal applicants I believe. Also, if you were to go more looking into their acceptance rates. In 2018, there was only 2 people accepted with a 75-80 average. The median was an 84-86%. 

I'm not saying that high stat applicants shouldn't not be accepted; but I'm saying have some decency for other applicants who may not have had it as easy as others.

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7 minutes ago, BarbellsAndBicarb said:

You're absolutely correct, U of S doesn't care about work experience or EC's. But you really think that they would accept someone into their medical school if they weren't able to communicate properly with an individual to pass the interview? You do know that the interview is 50% of admission? Sure, there are applicants with outstanding grades but they do a piss poor job with communication. I first hand have had experience with residents and physicians who can't communicate properly with their colleagues and patients which leads to a nurse/paramedic running their ER for them. 

You do know that diversity isn't necessarily EC's? If you guys would go a little more in-depth in research about this particular medical school you would know that they have seats specifically for those who come from a lower household income. Who have had more barriers in their way of being able to achieve high grades. 

They offer 5 seats for DSAAP and 6 for Aboriginal applicants I believe. Also, if you were to go more looking into their acceptance rates. In 2018, there was only 2 people accepted with a 75-80 average. The median was an 84-86%. 

I'm not saying that high stat applicants shouldn't not be accepted; but I'm saying have some decency for other applicants who may not have had it as easy as others.

A one hour MMI does not show how one can communicate well...if you have gone through one you would know how subjective it can be, and how some could "game" the MMI by representing an untrue side of themselves...Second of all, no one was talking about Aboriginal/DSAAP seats....most, if not all medical schools have those programs in place. What is concerning are  the VAST MAJORITY of other admitted students who are not Aboriginal/DSAAP who get into UofS easily, who would have no chance in hell to get in to other schools due to their IP advantage at Sask (which is by far the best IP to have in Canada). PS- All of my friends who have high GPA's, high MCAT's, and high EC's have had to overcome some significant life obstacles as well, yet have failed to get in after many attempts. There is no reason to have this discussion. Just admit that Sask IP's have hit the goldmine. Be thankful to have IP in Sask and move on. I understand that life is unfair and my bitterness at this process is turning into aloofness.  

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I’d love to hear from an Ontarian who went to U of S for undergrad to gain IP status for med school.  How was your experience?  Did you like U of S?  Would you recommend this path?  How hard is it to do well there?

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On 10/8/2019 at 11:19 PM, YesIcan55 said:

I know many people with high GPA's, high MCAT's, great EC's who have done multiple degrees and have been applying to Canadian medical schools 4+ times and have yet to get accepted. These people will make amazing physicians but are being shut out by the system every year. And you're telling me that someone with a low GPA, very low MCAT, and no need to demonstrate EC's in the application process, who can waltz into UofS on their first try, will be an amazing physician....that is enraging. Plus, as the poster above said if you don't even consider EC's / work experience /etc you can't give me the diversity excuse...

I know this is an aside from the point of this thread, but worth responding to- I have to agree with BarbellsAndBicarb. I had a low(er) MCAT. I was also working a full time job so I could pay for rent and groceries the whole summer I studied for it. I know this won't make me a less qualified physician than my colleague with the higher score because they had parents to pay for a summer of MCAT prep courses and four months off to study. I'm not better than them, they're not better than me. Just different life circumstances. Past a certain GPA/MCAT cut-off, there's a real argument to be made that the rest of what many attribute to 'worth' actually comes down to money. I see what you mean about the ECs, though, and anticipate based on recent shifts that this could change substantially in coming years. 

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2 hours ago, alextrebek said:

I know this is an aside from the point of this thread, but worth responding to- I have to agree with BarbellsAndBicarb. I had a low(er) MCAT. I was also working a full time job so I could pay for rent and groceries the whole summer I studied for it. I know this won't make me a less qualified physician than my colleague with the higher score because they had parents to pay for a summer of MCAT prep courses and four months off to study. I'm not better than them, they're not better than me. Just different life circumstances. Past a certain GPA/MCAT cut-off, there's a real argument to be made that the rest of what many attribute to 'worth' actually comes down to money. I see what you mean about the ECs, though, and anticipate based on recent shifts that this could change substantially in coming years. 

There's increasingly an understanding that after a certain cutoff, which is lower than what most schools have as their cutoffs currently, your GPA and MCAT score are basically meaningless in predicting your competence as a physician. The last numbers I read I think were something like a 3.0 GPA and a 504 MCAT. 

 

Personally I think we have a massive socioeconomic divide in medicine which thankfully schools are starting to address. In society the top 1% represent, well 1% of the population, but in medicine, atleast in my year they represent over 65% of the class. I have some ideas about how admissions should work, and have had some conversations with faculty members in my school, but I think this is the number 1 thing we have to address, not superficial aspects like MCAT or GPA. So much of being a good physician is having the ability to connect with and care about your patients, and I just think that's really hard to do when there is such a large social gap between medicine and the rest of society.

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:08 PM, JBDF said:

I’d love to hear from an Ontarian who went to U of S for undergrad to gain IP status for med school.  How was your experience?  Did you like U of S?  Would you recommend this path?  How hard is it to do well there?

Honestly me too... Currently USask is my top choice because it'll allow me to get IP status but I don't want to go all the way out to Saskatoon for no reason... 

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