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Federal Election 2019

Med0123

This discussion is getting heated.  We are all adults and I think this thread should be kept open, but I would ask everyone to take a step back, realize that this is a public forum and try to have a tempered and collegial discussion of the relevant healthcare topics associated with the federal elections. Thank you.

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cleanup

The OP (Compton) has requested that I close the thread as he believes it has derailed from its original intention. Have a good night everyone and fingers crossed people have come away from the posts with something new learned or realized. Cheers. 

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Bernier!!

Just Kidding :D. On a serious note, I used to think that Scheer was a shoe in to win but not anymore as he is being associated with Doug Ford and Steven Harper. It'll be close between Scheer and Trudeau, not dissimilar to Trump vs. Clinton's election.

And i feel like a big issue will be pharmacare.

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Would never vote for Trudeau..and the NDP is on its way to being (almost) wiped out because of its leader. Hoping for Scheer to pull through and get a minority government with the BQ.

Biggest issue is probably cost of living/housing affordability but immigration/asylum seekers and healthcare are up there.

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10 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

Scheer is disgusting....vote for Trudeau if you are a self-respecting visible minority/supporter of LGBTQ/not a conservative racist. 

I've never been a fan of identity politics so I want to clarify your point. Are you suggesting most conservatives are racist or only a small subset? 

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26 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

I live in AB, trust me when I say that most conservatives here don't have favourable thoughts of immigrants/refugees/Muslims/visible minorities/Indigenous people

You still didn't answer the question.  PGY1_FM asked if you thought most conservative were racist.

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2 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

ok, I will. I honestly believe most conservatives are racists in their attitudes towards Muslims/refugees/immigrants. 

Thank you for having the courage to say this. I feel like so many conservatives consistently say racist things and believe in racist politicians/policies, and then get super offended when called racist.

Ironically the group of people most prone to calling others "snowflakes" are the biggest snowflakes of all. Projection and all. 

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1 hour ago, YesIcan55 said:

ok, I will. I honestly believe most conservatives are racists in their attitudes towards Muslims/refugees/immigrants. 

@YesIcan55 Ok fair enough. You're always entitled to your own opinion, but I want to shed some reasons as to why a normal person would vote conservative:

1. Rewarding discipline instead of taxing discipline: Contrary to popular belief, many conservatives are hard-working people who actually used to be liberal when they were younger but since transitioned to conservative (I am an example of this). I used to believe that most conservatives were rich people who inherited their fortunes, but in reality that is only a small subset of the conservative population. Most conservatives are hard-working people who save their money religiously and avoid the temptation to purchase unnecessary crap. They then invest their hard-earned savings into the stock market and believe that they should not be taxed/punished for that discipline. Of course, some taxation is necessary for good social causes but if it goes too far, there is no opportunity for growth. 

2. Rewarding risk:  I personally was not wealthy growing up. I worked at a fast-food joint for many years. I was resentful towards the business owner because she was so wealthy. However, I soon realized that this resentment was rooted in my own jealousy and insecurities. This owner was taking a RISK. If the business went bankrupt, I would have lost my job, but the business owner would have declared bankruptcy. This business owner is fundamentally responsible for the entire operation, whether it goes good OR BAD. She took a risk, and conservatives believe that she deserves to be rewarded for that risk by not being heavily taxed on her profits. 

With that in mind, we should still offer support when necessary, when for example an individual truly needs it (e.g. disabled, poverty, etc.). However, in most cases, doing things yourself leads to much better outcomes than relying on the government for support. This is the conservative view. 

Like any group of people, there are of course those at the extreme that are racist and bigoted. However, most conservatives are normal people who simply have a fundamentally different worldview than yourself. The sooner we can stop labeling people as 'trash' and actually respectfully listen to their views, the sooner we can have productive conversations. 

 

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17 minutes ago, ysera said:

Thank you for having the courage to say this. I feel like so many conservatives consistently say racist things and believe in racist politicians/policies, and then get super offended when called racist.

Ironically the group of people most prone to calling others "snowflakes" are the biggest snowflakes of all. Projection and all. 

No problem. I am a brown skinned, Arab, Muslim immigrant who grew up low SES. I feel so many issues about racism/discrimnation and generally ill will towards people of my 'groups' by conservatives are accepted or thrown under the rug. They think people are "pulling the race card" when they are generally speaking out against their disgusting view points. It truly saddens me when I go through downtown Calgary in the summertime and see the protests outside of city hall saying "honk if you want to Trudeau deported/jailed" and have so many cars honking....or seeing the White supremacy groups in downtown Calgary outside of city hall....or even hearing what my White friend who works at a country club tell me what the rich conservatives think of immigrants over dinner etc

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2 minutes ago, PGY1_FM said:

@YesIcan55 Ok fair enough. You're always entitled to your own opinion, but I want to shed some reasons as to why a normal person would vote conservative:

1. Rewarding discipline instead of taxing discipline: Contrary to popular belief, many conservatives are hard-working people who actually used to be liberal when they were younger but since transitioned to conservative (I am an example of this). I used to believe that most conservatives were rich people who inherited their fortunes, but in reality that is only a small subset of the conservative population. Most conservatives are hard-working people who save their money religiously and avoid the temptation to purchase unnecessary crap. They then invest their hard-earned savings into the stock market and believe that they should not be taxed/punished for that discipline. Of course, some taxation is necessary for good social causes but if it goes too far, there is no opportunity for growth. 

2. Rewarding risk:  I personally was not wealthy growing up. I worked at a fast-food joint for many years. I was resentful towards the business owner because she was so wealthy. However, I soon realized that this resentment was rooted in my own jealousy and insecurities. This owner was taking a RISK. If the business went bankrupt, I would have lost my job, but the business owner would have declared bankruptcy. This business owner is fundamentally responsible for the entire operation, whether it goes good OR BAD. She took a risk, and conservatives believe that she deserves to be rewarded for that risk by not being heavily taxed on her profits. 

With that in mind, we should still offer support when necessary, when for example an individual truly needs it (e.g. disabled, poverty, etc.). However, in most cases, doing things yourself leads to much better outcomes than relying on the government for support. This is the conservative view. 

Like any group of people, there are of course those at the extreme that are racist and bigoted. However, most conservatives are normal people who simply have a fundamentally different worldview than yourself. The sooner we can stop labeling people as 'trash' and actually respectfully listen to their views, the sooner we can have productive conversations. 

 

you're a tool if you vote conservative for tax breaks while ignoring the conservative stance on immigration/general decency towards non-White people/refugees etc

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20 minutes ago, PGY1_FM said:

@YesIcan55 Ok fair enough. You're always entitled to your own opinion, but I want to shed some reasons as to why a normal person would vote conservative:

1. Rewarding discipline instead of taxing discipline: Contrary to popular belief, many conservatives are hard-working people who actually used to be liberal when they were younger but since transitioned to conservative (I am an example of this). I used to believe that most conservatives were rich people who inherited their fortunes, but in reality that is only a small subset of the conservative population. Most conservatives are hard-working people who save their money religiously and avoid the temptation to purchase unnecessary crap. They then invest their hard-earned savings into the stock market and believe that they should not be taxed/punished for that discipline. Of course, some taxation is necessary for good social causes but if it goes too far, there is no opportunity for growth. 

2. Rewarding risk:  I personally was not wealthy growing up. I worked at a fast-food joint for many years. I was resentful towards the business owner because she was so wealthy. However, I soon realized that this resentment was rooted in my own jealousy and insecurities. This owner was taking a RISK. If the business went bankrupt, I would have lost my job, but the business owner would have declared bankruptcy. This business owner is fundamentally responsible for the entire operation, whether it goes good OR BAD. She took a risk, and conservatives believe that she deserves to be rewarded for that risk by not being heavily taxed on her profits. 

With that in mind, we should still offer support when necessary, when for example an individual truly needs it (e.g. disabled, poverty, etc.). However, in most cases, doing things yourself leads to much better outcomes than relying on the government for support. This is the conservative view. 

Like any group of people, there are of course those at the extreme that are racist and bigoted. However, most conservatives are normal people who simply have a fundamentally different worldview than yourself. The sooner we can stop labeling people as 'trash' and actually respectfully listen to their views, the sooner we can have productive conversations. 

 

What you're essentially saying is you're ok with making the lives of minorities a living hell as long as you get your tax cuts. That doesn't make you any better in my eyes.

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@YesIcan55 @ysera

There is no need to be inflammatory in this discussion :). I'm trying to explain my perspective and have a productive conservation but I am being labelled as 'trash' in the process. I ask that we criticize each other's arguments, not the person. 

So to start things off, can you please explain your point of view as to why the social policies of the conservatives are not ideal, and then if possible propose a solution? 

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4 minutes ago, PGY1_FM said:

@YesIcan55 @ysera

There is no need to be inflammatory in this discussion :). I'm trying to explain my perspective and have a productive conservation but I am being labelled as 'trash' in the process. I ask that we criticize each other's arguments, not the person. 

So to start things off, can you please explain your point of view as to why the social policies of the conservatives are not ideal, and then if possible propose a solution? 

I don't know who called you trash but it wasn't me. This is a sensitive topic for me because I've seen so many people adversely affected by conservative policies that I've lost my patience. Economic opportunism does not absolve you of your responsibility in bringing into power people who will do serious harm if elected. 

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9 minutes ago, ysera said:

I don't know who called you trash but it wasn't me. This is a sensitive topic for me because I've seen so many people adversely affected by conservative policies that I've lost my patience. Economic opportunism does not absolve you of your responsibility in bringing into power people who will do serious harm if elected. 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this sensitive topic. Can you elaborate more on specific conservative policies that have adversely impacted others just so we can understand each others point of view better?

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3 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

ok, I will. I honestly believe most conservatives are racists in their attitudes towards Muslims/refugees/immigrants. 

 

48 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

No problem. I am a brown skinned, Arab, Muslim immigrant who grew up low SES. I feel so many issues about racism/discrimnation and generally ill will towards people of my 'groups' by conservatives are accepted or thrown under the rug. They think people are "pulling the race card" when they are generally speaking out against their disgusting view points. It truly saddens me when I go through downtown Calgary in the summertime and see the protests outside of city hall saying "honk if you want to Trudeau deported/jailed" and have so many cars honking....or seeing the White supremacy groups in downtown Calgary outside of city hall....or even hearing what my White friend who works at a country club tell me what the rich conservatives think of immigrants over dinner etc

Well thanks for calling a bunch of people on this forum "racist". If people don't support funding towards refugees or immigrants but rather have that money towards our veterans or infrastructure, its racist correct? If people don't agree with Liberal policies and ideas, its racist. No, I don't support having Trudeau hanged/jailed/etc. but I don't want to see him in office anymore. He raised taxes, butchered foreign relations, involved in a corruption scandal and spends money like it grows on trees. He doesn't want to deal with the illegal asylum crossings throughout Canada, which is a big issue in my riding. I'm an immigrant from the middle east (Lebanon) and my parents worked hard to pay for the immigration fees, interviews, etc. We were not allowed to come to Canada until we had clearance and papers from the Canadian government. Meanwhile, some people from Africa/Middle East just hop on a plane to the US, take a taxi to the border and walk over. How is that fair? Clearly, they can afford to pay the immigration fees and go through the legal process but instead, they get housed in hotels, get medical care before they have their asylum hearings. It pains me to see that. And quite frankly, immigrant mentality has contributed to people having harsh views about immigrants. No we don't take their jobs but we do bring problems such as ridiculous driving and fake driving schools, contributing to high insurance rates in some places (ex. Brampton).

The conservatives don't have a strong plan on climate change and I've been working hard to raise this issue with my MP. But to label most conservatives as racist is something I would have to disagree with. On a side note, do you label most of Quebec as racist since they support Bill 21? Even though they vote liberal federally? 

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I didn't say it was racist to not support those things, do not put words in my mouth. Its cringeworthy for an Arab to vote conservative, lmao you should hear what your fellow conservative supporters truly think about your kind behind your back. 

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2 hours ago, Pepsi905 said:

 

Well thanks for calling a bunch of people on this forum "racist". If people don't support funding towards refugees or immigrants but rather have that money towards our veterans or infrastructure, its racist correct? If people don't agree with Liberal policies and ideas, its racist. No, I don't support having Trudeau hanged/jailed/etc. but I don't want to see him in office anymore. He raised taxes, butchered foreign relations, involved in a corruption scandal and spends money like it grows on trees. He doesn't want to deal with the illegal asylum crossings throughout Canada, which is a big issue in my riding. I'm an immigrant from the middle east (Lebanon) and my parents worked hard to pay for the immigration fees, interviews, etc. We were not allowed to come to Canada until we had clearance and papers from the Canadian government. Meanwhile, some people from Africa/Middle East just hop on a plane to the US, take a taxi to the border and walk over. How is that fair? Clearly, they can afford to pay the immigration fees and go through the legal process but instead, they get housed in hotels, get medical care before they have their asylum hearings. It pains me to see that. And quite frankly, immigrant mentality has contributed to people having harsh views about immigrants. No we don't take their jobs but we do bring problems such as ridiculous driving and fake driving schools, contributing to high insurance rates in some places (ex. Brampton).

The conservatives don't have a strong plan on climate change and I've been working hard to raise this issue with my MP. But to label most conservatives as racist is something I would have to disagree with. On a side note, do you label most of Quebec as racist since they support Bill 21? Even though they vote liberal federally? 

Wow you are deluded. "People from middle east/Africa hop on a plane and walk over" really? They are often fleeing war or some kind of instability. I think it is our responsibility to help them. While I disagree with YesIcan's view that all conservatives are racist, what you're saying is totally ignorant. Also Bill21 sucks and anyone that supports bullshit like that is racist. Goodbye

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