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How much do family doctors actually make?

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21 hours ago, thank4 said:

This notion of respect associated with certain specialties is so weird to me. Is it only a med student thing due to the relative competitiveness?

Respect is earned, not given. I’ve seen specialists in highly competitive fields not being respected by other docs due to the way they practice and PCP who are well respected by other specialist due to their thoroughness. 
 

If you are talking respect from patient, you realize there are patients who respect naturopath more than MDs right? 

you have a bunch of highly competitive people all in the same area - sometimes that just results in people creating all these weird categories. 

I would even call it respect - maybe more prestige? Some jobs in medicine are harder, some take a lot longer, and some jobs pay more. I am not sure any of that is good reason to pick something ha (particularly when you factor in the opportunity costs of doing it) - or at least not the main reason. Then again for some people it really matters.  

 

 

 

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I love googles initial response:

What is the most respected medical specialty?
Top answer:
According to an online survey of more than 20,000 physicians across 29 specialties, the highest-paying medical specialties are:
  • Plastic surgery—$501,000 per year.
  • Orthopedics—$497,000.
  • Cardiology—$408,000.
  • Radiology—$401,000.
  • Dermatology—$392,000.

 

That wasn't the question ha, but it shows even if just a quirk of the search engine of where people thoughts go :)

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3 hours ago, rmorelan said:

I love googles initial response:

What is the most respected medical specialty?
Top answer:
According to an online survey of more than 20,000 physicians across 29 specialties, the highest-paying medical specialties are:
  • Plastic surgery—$501,000 per year.
  • Orthopedics—$497,000.
  • Cardiology—$408,000.
  • Radiology—$401,000.
  • Dermatology—$392,000.

 

That wasn't the question ha, but it shows even if just a quirk of the search engine of where people thoughts go :)

Yeah the whole system makes no sense. 
 

For instance take your highly respected academic docs that are Amazing. Training residents, seeing complex cases etc. 
 

now take the same job in the community and take a doc just whipping through patients as fast as he can. 
 

one makesn2-3x what the other does. Yet one is more respected. 

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4 minutes ago, Raptors905 said:

Yeah the whole system makes no sense. 
 

For instance take your highly respected academic docs that are Amazing. Training residents, seeing complex cases etc. 
 

now take the same job in the community and take a doc just whipping through patients as fast as he can. 
 

one makesn2-3x what the other does. Yet one is more respected. 

I have reading just a little bit on this today out of curiosity - I think the term people are using often is respect vs status. Similar I guess but still different. You can be a well respected doctor but not have the status of someone perhaps in another speciality. 

The entire makes more money = respect thing makes very little sense to me. There are a lot of business people making a lot more than doctors I wouldn't respect at all - because in fact they ARE making so much more by means that I consider not particularly ethical ha. 

Academics often do trade income for the academic lifestyle ha - plus usually live in more expensive cities as that is where the universities are. Still both groups do well enough financially. 

 

Edited by rmorelan

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3 hours ago, Bentist said:

For your information, I'm an undergraduate student.

And I applied to med school this year and if they're smart they'll accept me, because you know what, I'm not like you people.

Given that medicine is what I'm born to do, I don't care if I'm making pennies or millions each year.

God knows that selfless people like me who go into medicine for the right reasons are a minority.

Of course all doctors make a lot. I'm not seeing "where is there a need for better healthcare?". I'm seeing "how can I make even more money / pay less tax /etc." 

Thank you for being part of the problem.

Come back when you’re a 4th year med student 300K in the hole and panicking about government funding cuts to doctors and how there’s no jobs, and how you’re about to blow 10K+ on a trans Canada interview tour for a residency position where you will work 90hrs per week for 5 years at the equivalent of minimum wage yet you’re now 30+ with a wife and kid to support in a city away from your family and friends who all have careers and are progressing in their life and meanwhile you’re wondering why the hell you did this to yourself as you eat an expired package of kraft dinner at 4am in a hospital basement while your pager is going nuts because “FYI” Mr. Jones’ K+ is 5.1. At that point, regardless of how much you love being a doctor and helping people, let’s see if you’d still prefer pennies.  

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9 hours ago, Bentist said:

For your information, I'm an undergraduate student.

And I applied to med school this year and if they're smart they'll accept me, because you know what, I'm not like you people.

Given that medicine is what I'm born to do, I don't care if I'm making pennies or millions each year.

God knows that selfless people like me who go into medicine for the right reasons are a minority.

Of course all doctors make a lot. I'm not seeing "where is there a need for better healthcare?". I'm seeing "how can I make even more money / pay less tax /etc." 

Thank you for being part of the problem.

As I suspect. An Undergrad student judging a bunch of practicing docs and residents. 
 

Sour grapes? Anyway why don’t you go Kick yourself to the premed forum and start commenting on salaries when you are actually in med school and have a debt to pay off. If you ever make it this far 

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9 hours ago, Bentist said:

For your information, I'm an undergraduate student.

And I applied to med school this year and if they're smart they'll accept me, because you know what, I'm not like you people.

Given that medicine is what I'm born to do, I don't care if I'm making pennies or millions each year.

God knows that selfless people like me who go into medicine for the right reasons are a minority.

Of course all doctors make a lot. I'm not seeing "where is there a need for better healthcare?". I'm seeing "how can I make even more money / pay less tax /etc." 

Thank you for being part of the problem.

Actsully all your posts seem to be dental focused before this. So if you are a pretty dental student why are you trolling in a medical residency forum?

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2 hours ago, Bentist said:

Frankly, people rejected and hated Jesus because He told the TRUTH. Just like you are doing to me. 

And instead of confronting the truth, you attack the messenger.  The truth's often difficult to accept, a result of Leftism infecting the minds of the youth.

Guys, the world is a much brighter place when the sinful desire for money money money stops clouding your brain.

So please do better.

Our messiah seems to have arrived lmao

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19 hours ago, Bentist said:

Frankly, people rejected and hated Jesus because He told the TRUTH. Just like you are doing to me. 

And instead of confronting the truth, you attack the messenger.  The truth's often difficult to accept, a result of Leftism infecting the minds of the youth.

Guys, the world is a much brighter place when the sinful desire for money money money stops clouding your brain.

So please do better.

LOL. Did you just compare yourself to Jesus? 
 

This is an obvious troll but also hilarious. Well done. If not, that’s unfortunate for you. 

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On 1/12/2020 at 6:01 PM, rmorelan said:

I have reading just a little bit on this today out of curiosity - I think the term people are using often is respect vs status. Similar I guess but still different. You can be a well respected doctor but not have the status of someone perhaps in another speciality. 

The entire makes more money = respect thing makes very little sense to me. There are a lot of business people making a lot more than doctors I wouldn't respect at all - because in fact they ARE making so much more by means that I consider not particularly ethical ha. 

Academics often do trade income for the academic lifestyle ha - plus usually live in more expensive cities as that is where the universities are. Still both groups do well enough financially. 

 

I heard that the academic doctors make 30-40% less than community doctors. However, the patients in academic hospitals are more complex/take longer time to see, the billing codes remain the same. Also, you have to factor in the lifestyle as above, and work from 8 am to 5 pm (with most of the time dedicated to teaching/administrative staff). I think that being a mentor to medical students/residents is invaluable, as you won't get the same opportunity in the community. You can also get "respect", feeling of importance from your medical students/learners who are desperately to make you happy for a good evaluation ;) It means much more to me personally to train the best future physicians, make a difference in their trajectory; than seeing consults after consults community hospital and being burnt out because you are alone. 

Also, the academic doctors do get paid by the government through teaching stipends; there is also paid salary from the university if you ever become an associate professor/professor/dean of medicine (those positions are coveted). 

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6 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

I heard that the academic doctors make 30-40% less than community doctors. However, the patients in academic hospitals are more complex/take longer time to see, the billing codes remain the same. Also, you have to factor in the lifestyle as above, and work from 8 am to 5 pm (with most of the time dedicated to teaching/administrative staff). I think that being a mentor to medical students/residents is invaluable, as you won't get the same opportunity in the community. You can also get "respect", feeling of importance from your medical students/learners who are desperately to make you happy for a good evaluation ;) It means much more to me personally to train the best future physicians, make a difference in their trajectory; than seeing consults after consults community hospital and being burnt out because you are alone. 

Also, the academic doctors do get paid by the government through teaching stipends; there is also paid salary from the university if you ever become an associate professor/professor/dean of medicine (those positions are coveted). 

You're not wrong, but just slightly over estimating the difference....30% is a bit of a stretch, maybe 20%. Really depends on speciality and center. The stipends from unis is often times negligible. Also, my staff finished at the same time I did yesterday, 7pm. You're right about teaching, but it seems the magic of brings a teacher wears off quickly for many people (however those that keep it are amazing)!

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4 hours ago, PhD2MD said:

You're not wrong, but just slightly over estimating the difference....30% is a bit of a stretch, maybe 20%. Really depends on speciality and center. The stipends from unis is often times negligible. Also, my staff finished at the same time I did yesterday, 7pm. You're right about teaching, but it seems the magic of brings a teacher wears off quickly for many people (however those that keep it are amazing)!

Academics has a lot of positives. 
 

-residents and fellows to help do your work

-prestige and respect 

-easy to stay up to date 

-potential for research 

-viewed as a true leader in your field. 
 

 

rhe downsides are

 

-less money. Not able to kill yourself and work if you want or at a super fast pace because of trainees 

-more complex patients slow you down 

-less vacation time in general

-even during free time you have stuff to do

 

It’s a trade off. Most people want academics because the positives outweighs the negatives. 

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2 hours ago, Raptors905 said:

Academics has a lot of positives. 
 

-residents and fellows to help do your work

-prestige and respect 

-easy to stay up to date 

-potential for research 

-viewed as a true leader in your field. 
 

 

rhe downsides are

 

-less money. Not able to kill yourself and work if you want or at a super fast pace because of trainees 

-more complex patients slow you down 

-less vacation time in general

-even during free time you have stuff to do

 

It’s a trade off. Most people want academics because the positives outweighs the negatives. 

can I add also much more politics in the academic setting as well? - a lot more politics. Shows up in a variety of ways ha

 

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1 hour ago, rmorelan said:

can I add also much more politics in the academic setting as well? - a lot more politics. Shows up in a variety of ways ha

 

Also you have less control of your life. Section head delegates you to give the med school lecture for your specialty? Department head wants annual review meetings and research productivity meetings? Easier to say no to things in private practice.

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1 hour ago, The Ace of Spades said:

Also you have less control of your life. Section head delegates you to give the med school lecture for your specialty? Department head wants annual review meetings and research productivity meetings? Easier to say no to things in private practice.

Sure - more rules, more meetings......some people have described it to me as imagining a high school group project except you have to keep working with the same group of often disinterested people for around 30-40 years. 

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6 hours ago, Raptors905 said:

Most people want academics because the positives outweighs the negatives.

I'm not sure if that's true in a broad sense. It's about personal preferences. Those positives aren't as big for some people, whereas having true free time might be more important. Also the majority of people don't become academic clinicians, so I think most prefer free time to prestige. This is coming from someone who's considering an academic career.

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A lot of the positives and negatives I agree with. Except prestige...

Everyone has their own little circle of friends/ colleagues who make them feel important. There's no need for seeking out this so-called "prestige". You're basically surrounded by people who think really highly of themselves. They get awards just telling them how important they are. Do you want to spend the rest of your life trying to prove to others you're so important? You're just a regular Joe/ Jane whenever you're 5 steps out of the hospital. Just do what you think you'll have the most fulfilling career.

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14 hours ago, canada747 said:

I'm not sure if that's true in a broad sense. It's about personal preferences. Those positives aren't as big for some people, whereas having true free time might be more important. Also the majority of people don't become academic clinicians, so I think most prefer free time to prestige. This is coming from someone who's considering an academic career.

I mean in the sense that most academic jobs are uber competitive to land and require usually a masters etc to get. I assume that means despite the negatives a lot of people want one 

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12 hours ago, Wachaa said:

A lot of the positives and negatives I agree with. Except prestige...

Everyone has their own little circle of friends/ colleagues who make them feel important. There's no need for seeking out this so-called "prestige". You're basically surrounded by people who think really highly of themselves. They get awards just telling them how important they are. Do you want to spend the rest of your life trying to prove to others you're so important? You're just a regular Joe/ Jane whenever you're 5 steps out of the hospital. Just do what you think you'll have the most fulfilling career.

I think it depends. 
 

in the community you will be a clinician. 
 

in the academic world you can be that and more (ie - teacher. Researcher, terminal expert, presenter, etc). 

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1 hour ago, Raptors905 said:

I mean in the sense that most academic jobs are uber competitive to land and require usually a masters etc to get. I assume that means despite the negatives a lot of people want one 

That logic is flawed. It's not that the majority of people want those jobs, it's that there are a few jobs and slightly more people than jobs, creating demand. The # of people who want the jobs > the # of jobs -> demand. Not that the # of people who want academic jobs > # of people who want clinical/basic medical practice jobs.

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