What are my chances *Suspension* UofT Med School

[Stresssedout]

Hi everyone,

I am currently a second year student at UOttawa in Biomedical sciences. My GPA for first year was very low due to mental health reasons, in fact, it was so low that I was put on academic suspension for second year. In my school, you can still take classes while you're on academic suspension, but they count as "academic upgrading" classes. So far, I am doing really well in my classes, I've gotten A+'s on all of my midterms.

Assuming the best, assuming I get a 4.0 in every single class for 2nd, 3rd and 4th year, and end up with a 3.8+ GPA (repeating the classes I didn't do well in in the summer to replace the grades) do I still have a chance in getting into UofT's med school?

I am doing many extracurriculars, doctor shadowing, and plan on doing some research work as well.

Is my academic suspension/withdrawal going to be visible on my transcript? If it is, is it completely impossible to get into med school with it on my transcript, even if I get a very high GPA, very high MCAT score and many extracurriculars? 

[Bambi]

Do not be stressed out. Just do the best you can and you will be treated as a serious candidate on the merits. Broaden your horizons, all Canadian medical schools are excellent and it is impossible to know when and where lightning will strike. I would not be concerned with your academic past, rather look  to the present and the future! Good luck.

[MedicineLCS]

1 hour ago, Stresssedout said:

(repeating the classes I didn't do well in in the summer to replace the grades)

Canadian schools don't do grade replacement. The number on your transcript will forever be the number on your transcript as far as they're concerned. Only repeat the courses you need to, ideally during the typical academic year to save time during the summers, and since some schools ignore summer courses. 

That being said, some schools have very generous weighting schemes, or will only look at your best/most recent 2 years. Nail every year moving onwards and you'll be competitive. Don't worry too much about a poor start, you're not alone, some schools will even let you write an essay explaining your poor first year and "I overcame my mental health issues" is more compelling than "High school was much easier". 

Good luck!

[rmorelan]

2 hours ago, Stresssedout said:

Hi everyone,

I am currently a second year student at UOttawa in Biomedical sciences. My GPA for first year was very low due to mental health reasons, in fact, it was so low that I was put on academic suspension for second year. In my school, you can still take classes while you're on academic suspension, but they count as "academic upgrading" classes. So far, I am doing really well in my classes, I've gotten A+'s on all of my midterms.

Assuming the best, assuming I get a 4.0 in every single class for 2nd, 3rd and 4th year, and end up with a 3.8+ GPA (repeating the classes I didn't do well in in the summer to replace the grades) do I still have a chance in getting into UofT's med school?

I am doing many extracurriculars, doctor shadowing, and plan on doing some research work as well.

Is my academic suspension/withdrawal going to be visible on my transcript? If it is, is it completely impossible to get into med school with it on my transcript, even if I get a very high GPA, very high MCAT score and many extracurriculars? 

that repeat course issue mentioned above is important - as they don't count repeats. 

that being said there are a bunch of grading schemes from several schools that will ignore earlier issues like this. Plus more importantly getting to the point where you can overcome your health issues is critical for this and more importantly life in general. Looks like you are doing well so of course congrats! 

To extend your example - if you do it correctly and got 4.0 GPA in your 2nd, 3rd and 4th years (of extremely good grades, nice to target but beyond necessary) would give you an application GPA eventually of 4.0 at several schools. Careful understanding of those rules (and awareness of them) is simply critical then. You don't want to accidentally make a mistake. Read the schools' policies, ask any questions you have have, seek out council from those that know about these things etc. Whatever it takes to make sure you efforts are towards the right milestones you need. 

 

 

[Stresssedout]

18 minutes ago, MedicineLCS said:

Canadian schools don't do grade replacement. The number on your transcript will forever be the number on your transcript as far as they're concerned.

This is what it says on uOttawa's regulations:

"In an effort to improve their grade or reinforce their knowledge, students can repeat courses they have either passed or failed.

With the exception of the courses offered by the Telfer School of Management and the language courses offered by the Faculty of Arts, the student can repeat a successfully completed course that is a prerequisite for a course they have already taken and passed.

The following conditions apply:

All courses taken and repeated appear on the student’s transcript.

All courses, whether passed or failed, can be repeated only once. Only the second grade obtained is used in the calculation of averages. A failing grade can replace a passing grade."

Is that what you meant? Or did you mean that medical schools will only count the first time you took it?

[MedicineLCS]

That's your Undergraduate University's policy. The key part is 

Quote

All courses taken and repeated appear on the student’s transcript.

Medical schools will see both attempts and include both grades, if not dropped as part of a weighting system. Take Ottawa Medicine for example:

Quote

How do you assess repeated courses?

All courses shown on your transcript within the most recent three years of full-time undergraduate studies in a recognized university will count in the calculation of your WGPA.

In the end, while your school's GPA may increase, your med GPA (which is often different) will not. Ottawa automatically only looks at 3 years, so your first year is fine, but other schools may include them, such as McMaster:

Quote

If I have a bad year, will it be used in the GPA calculation?

The GPA is calculated on all undergraduate university course work you have ever done. No allowances are made for how many years ago the work was done or circumstances that may have caused you to have lower marks. If you feel that a mark on your transcript is low because of circumstances beyond your control, you must address this with the Registrar of the university you attended. If the mark is removed from your transcript, we will not use it. Our academic assessment is based upon the information on your transcript.

 

[rmorelan]

11 minutes ago, MedicineLCS said:

That's your Undergraduate University's policy. The key part is 

Medical schools will see both attempts and include both grades, if not dropped as part of a weighting system. Take Ottawa Medicine for example:

In the end, while your school's GPA may increase, your med GPA (which is often different) will not. Ottawa automatically only looks at 3 years, so your first year is fine, but other schools may include them, such as McMaster:

 

exactly this is the main issue - if you are repeating the course they cannot be used directly for med school. If you are doing well that can be annoying

Despite that though it is isn't a pointless exercise - far from it actually. Redoing it demonstrates you fixed the issues causing the problem which is really the major blockage to advancing. Again many schools have a lot of ways of overriding the poor grades - dropped years, dropped courses, weighting things etc - you were always going to use those anyway if you continued to med school. You have to set yourself up for future success and this is the year to do it. 

(even mcmaster that yes counts all counts GPA, does so a lot less than other schools)

[Stresssedout]

5 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

Again many schools have a lot of ways of overriding the poor grades - dropped years, dropped courses, weighting things etc

22 minutes ago, MedicineLCS said:

In the end, while your school's GPA may increase, your med GPA (which is often different) will not. Ottawa automatically only looks at 3 years, so your first year is fine, but other schools may include them, such as McMaster:

Thank you so much for all your input. Does anyone know more about UofT's GPA requirements and how they calculate things? That is the school I want to go to. I noticed on their requirements, it says:

Quote

The Ontario Medical School Application Service’s (OMSAS) Grading System Conversion Table [PDF) is used to calculate GPA with your grades from all undergraduate courses completed on a full-time basis. All grades are included in a single GPA, including grades from multiple degree programs, multiple universities and/or from full-time non-degree undergraduate study. Part-time and summer courses* are counted towards meeting the prerequisite and degree requirements but they will not be included in the GPA calculation. Grades are not weighted differently based on your year of study.

It says "all undergraduate courses completed on a full-time basis". In my university, in order to be considered a full-time student you need to take at least 4 courses per semester. In my first semester of first year, I took 3 courses so I was part time, and in second semester I took 4, so I was full-time (according to my university). In UofT, I think you need to take 5 to be considered full-time. Does this mean my first year is completely removed from their GPA calculation? Or am I mistaken? 

[Stresssedout]

My other option is to get my degree and get the best grades I can moving forward, and pursue a short masters degree before I head to med school if I don't get in. But I'm scared that I wont get into the masters program either

[MedicineLCS]

The UofT wants to see:

Quote

You must have completed at least three years of study (equivalent of 15 credits) towards a Canadian university bachelor's degree in any discipline by the end of April in the year you plan to start the MD Program.

Where 0.5 credits=1 semester course. 

To be eligible for their wGPA you need:

Quote

If you have completed every year of your undergraduate studies on a full-time basis with a full-course load i.e. five full course equivalents (FCEs), in the regular academic session (September-April), we will automatically apply the wGPA formula. The wGPA removes one FCE grade(s) for each year of study from your GPA. For example:

So no, you do not have full year by UofT standards. But this doesn't help you because if you're not eligible for wGPA you get hit with cGPA instead :

Quote

The wGPA is designed to encourage you to take a demanding course load to better prepare for your medical studies. If you do not qualify for the wGPA, your application will still be assessed using a cumulative GPA formula. If you have any questions about your eligibility for wGPA, please contact us.

 

They do offer this nugget of hope:

Quote

If you are not eligible for wGPA but wish to have special consideration for it to be applied due to unusual circumstances, you should submit your request, supported by reasons, using the Academic Explanations Essay as part of your OMSAS application. All requests for special consideration will be reviewed by the Admissions Committee and are assessed on a case-by-case basis, and may be subject to verification. No decision will be released.

 

But in the end, you need to take a step back. Your question has been answered; your application will be competitive for some Canadian schools if you do well over the next couple years. You may not be competitive at the UofT if they deem you ineligible for wGPA. 

 

Beyond this, don't put all your eggs in the Med basket, and especially don't put them in a single school as an Ontario applicant. Any Canadian med school is a Canadian med school. At the same time, you're just starting 2nd year. Read up on all the schools admission policies to see how you should structure your course registration to be eligible/if you're eligible and move on. Don't fixate on the process, or a single school now, it's just going to leave you "stressedout" unnecessarily. You're at least 2 cycles away, time changes policies (although this is unlikely to change weighting requirements). Explore backups and don't make yourself miserable with "what if" scenarios. 

EDIT. 

I just wanted to add that you should live life now. I focused so much on school/work/ECs the first 3 years it strained relationships with my family. People get way to into this process (myself included). I had a siblings friend (a first year, 2 months in!) ask me about MCAT studying (and my books...). Don't copy that mindset, focus on your nearest target (good grades) before your next target (MCAT) and further targets (Applying, getting in, etc...).