Specialty Choices

[Applyingnow]

I want to apply to three unrelated highly competitive specialties. For various reasons I am geographically bound to Toronto or Montreal. 

Do McGill admission committees frown upon this? Does the word ever get out? Do committees of different programs within the same university talk to each other? Is this a reason for automatic rejection of the applicant, even if the applicant's file is strong?

What about UofT?

What's important for me to know is if the fact of different specialties receiving my file detrimental to my chances of matching?

I do not mind being " a good applicant but for whom we don't have any space". I mind being "that applicant whose file we will reject immediately because he has not shown 100% dedication to it and applied to other specialties".

I have heard of program committees "talking to each other" and I wish to know if this is true.

[Lactic Folly]

If the programs are unrelated, I doubt they would spend the extra time and effort comparing applicant lists in order to ferret out the rare person who has applied to more than one highly competitive specialty.

The bases for questioning an applicant's dedication may be their electives, research, and source of reference letters.

[1D7]

1 hour ago, Applyingnow said:

What's important for me to know is if the fact of different specialties receiving my file detrimental to my chances of matching?

I do not mind being " a good applicant but for whom we don't have any space". I mind being "that applicant whose file we will reject immediately because he has not shown 100% dedication to it and applied to other specialties".

It is extremely unlikely they'll speak to each other. You'd have to do something that warrants people to talk about you in general... and that is very rare. Regardless, it will still place you at a disadvantage if you are applying to 3 competitive specialties with an application split amongst the 3.

[Bambi]

I applied to  3 fields, 2 highly competitive, in a limited geographical area. It worked out just fine, got my 3 interviews and matched, although I realized it might not happen. Each of my letters were geared for a particular field, nobody asked about my interest in other fields. Good luck!

[The Ace of Spades]

I realize Bambi may have gotten lucky or been a stellar candidate, but applying to "three unrelated highly competitive specialties" + "geographically bound to Toronto or Montreal" sounds like a recipe for disaster... Something's gotta give.

[Bambi]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:36 PM, Applyingnow said:

I want to apply to three unrelated highly competitive specialties. For various reasons I am geographically bound to Toronto or Montreal. 

Do McGill admission committees frown upon this? Does the word ever get out? Do committees of different programs within the same university talk to each other? Is this a reason for automatic rejection of the applicant, even if the applicant's file is strong?

What about UofT?

What's important for me to know is if the fact of different specialties receiving my file detrimental to my chances of matching?

I do not mind being " a good applicant but for whom we don't have any space". I mind being "that applicant whose file we will reject immediately because he has not shown 100% dedication to it and applied to other specialties".

I have heard of program committees "talking to each other" and I wish to know if this is true.

I encourage you to go for it. I don’t see anything detrimental as a result of following this strategy. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. For the specialty where I may have been a stellar candidate, I was not selected. For the specialty that chose me, I would not describe myself as a stellar candidate, far from it,. It was my soft skills that did it with luck! I understood the risk on the limited geographical area and realized I might not match. Risk - reward! 

[robclem21]

10 hours ago, Bambi said:

I encourage you to go for it. I don’t see anything detrimental as a result of following this strategy. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. For the specialty where I may have been a stellar candidate, I was not selected. For the specialty that chose me, I would not describe myself as a stellar candidate, far from it,. It was my soft skills that did it with luck! I understood the risk on the limited geographical area and realized I might not match. Risk - reward! 

The detrimental result would be going unmatched.

I don't doubt that this was the best strategy for you, and that you had spent a lot of time thinking about your approach to matching and CaRMS. I also appreciate that even though you weren't selected for the specialty you were most competitive for, you were able to make a good enough impression on the others to be successful. I have seen your posts on this forum for years and the utmost respect for you.

Unfortunately, for most people, CaRMS is still very much a numbers game, and while I understand that everyone has their own advice based on their experiences, applying to 3 competitive specialties in a geographically limited area can have the very very real consequence of you going unmatched. If you appreciate and accept that risk, then by all means apply with that strategy. I would not however, advocate for this strategy across the board because one applicant in the past was successful with this strategy.

[Bambi]

Yes, the detrimental result would be going unmatched. If the OP is prepared to accept this risk, as was I, I then recommend the OP execute his or her strategy. After all, admission committees won’t even know and will deal with the OP on the merits. They don’t talk to each other and there is no automatic rejection. The fact of different specialties receiving his application is not detrimental to the OP’s chances of marching. The OP is interested in these fields and also is restricted to Montreal and Toronto, based upon whatever the personal factors are.

All applicants face the possibility of not matching the first time. The OP is at a pivotal time for purposes of career. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I don’t say this lightly. Worst case scenario, unmatched. Having been in these exact shoes, I know it is a risk worth taking! Whilst I don’t advocate for this strategy across the board, I do for the OP in the OP’s particular circumstances. Losing a year on the one hand against obtaining one’s geographical choice and choice of specialty, or at least knowing that you tried your best, makes the decision quite simple and easy. Now, you can argue there is no guarantee to ever match under any circumstances, but the OP can then reevaluate the second time round, if necessary. To me, the OP should execute this strategy and live with no regrets come what may. 

[1D7]

It seems like location is as or more important for OP than specialty. To optimize that, developing his/her application for 1 "highly competitive" specialty + FM would be much better than doing 3.

For highly competitive specialties they also need research in their field. This is probably even more important for UofT which is a large research centre. To answer's OP question more directly, it is highly unlikely you would be dismissed just for applying to multiple specialties. But some programs will rank you significantly lower on the interview list or even dismiss your application if you do not fulfill certain checkboxes like dedicated research in their specialty. I do not know if this is the case for the programs you are applying to but my point is that it is near impossible to develop a strong application for 3 very different competitive specialties.

If you're already at the stage where you're submitting CaRMS I suppose it's too late to do anything about it and you should fire off those apps to all 3 specialties since it won't hurt.

 

Quote

... To me, the OP should execute this strategy and live with no regrets come what may.

There are certain people that could make this work, but I'd reserve this sort of advice for people I know well. The person has to value the specialty more than matching, needs the means (i.e. supportive parents of at least middle income family) to survive an extra year without income, have the soft skills and traits to have a chance with this strategy, etc.

[Bambi]

Having come this far, I expect the OP is astute enough to make an informed decision, plugging in all factors.

[LostLamb]

With due respect to @Bambi, things have changed somewhat with the match since we both matched 5 years ago. Further, I don’t know for certain but I believe that you had the option of both French and English programs which is different than someone who sounds as they are applying to English language programs only  given the geographic/university restrictions  

Making very narrow and high risk applications do put one at significant risk of not matching, and unless you’ve been in that position you don’t know what that is like. It was hard on my peers that this happened to back in 2014, some who had to beg for a “leftover from second round” residency placement rather than risk waiting another year because of uncertainties. 

tread carefully, OP. Only you know what price you’ll pay if you do or do not match.

best of luck!!

LL

 

[Bambi]

Indeed, I applied to English and French programs restricting myself to a tight geographic area and did not apply outside the province..However, I applied only to 2 universities and absolutely recognized that I could not match due to the self imposed restrictions, and was prepared to accept such fate if it were to happen. In other words, I made an informed decision.

You could not have said it better that  making very narrow and high risk applications do put one at significant risk of not matching! As for things have changed since we both matched 5 years ago, I admit I have been out of the game a long time now and have no reason to follow or even be aware of such changes. Your last bit of advice is excellent « tread carefully »!

I am now in the new game where the stakes are high once again. Finding a job! My approach here is again high risk in the belief that I will have a soft landing. A story for another day perhaps.  

[MDinCanada]

Curious to know what the 3 specialties are