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UofT 2020 Applications DISCUSSION THREAD

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DarthSystole Newbie

DarthSystole

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11 minutes ago, Fun_Mushroom1998 said:

I know, the waiting game has been agonizing. I can't help but hold on to the hope that they are holding us for a reason and there is a SLIGHT chance of an interview. 

Yea I feel you, I can't help but think the same thing. I just feel like the longer this goes on the harder it's gonna be when I catch the R. Unless...

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kreedz
kreedz

Some news guys! On the phone, I asked if the invites have been sent out yet for Mar 28/29. She said basically none have been sent out yet, and that they will most likely be sent out next week.

hijkl
hijkl

might this week be the week? (every time i say that before another week of silence, i feel less and less confident that i even applied to u of t in the first place and this isn’t just some stupid

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Logic matters Newbie

Logic matters

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Here are my thoughts based on following the stats of those who have been invited/rejected by various universities.

Schools that rely on objective measures such as GPA, MCAT, and CASPER (of course weight may differ from school to school) have been quite consistent in their decision – an applicant to these schools consistently gets accepted by all or rejected by all.

Schools that reply on subjective measures such as ECs have been quite inconsistent in their decision, which is not unexpected - with the same ECs, one applicant accepted by one university is rejected by another. This highlights not only the subjectivity of comparing the widely differing ECs of two applicants but also the subjectivity of evaluators, specifically if groups of evaluators are used handle the large volume of applications.

Added to this  subjectivity is the “rolling admissions” of UT. How can a set of applications be evaluated, ranked, and offered interview without the knowledge on the remaining set of applications, specifically when the number of interview slots are limited?

I have read many arguments justifying use of ECs -   applicants in the first hundred ranks would make as good a doctor as applicants in the second hundred ranks.

However, the issue is fairness, which suffers when subjectivity increases. Normally, when the acceptance rate is high (i.e. the number of available spots are more), the effect of subjectivity is low. But the fairness will be skewed by the subjectivity when the acceptance rate is low.

Hence, for the sake of fairness, the Universities should eliminate or minimize their use of subjective measures such as ECs. Else, at the least, they should be transparent with how widely different ECs are compared and quantified on a fair basis.

90% of the applicants (rejected) put their career on the line (without opting for engineering for example), spend a lot of time and money, and pursue ECs blindly without knowing if it would impress the evaluators or not.

Universities owe to these 90% and the society it serves that the 90% are not led in a wild goose chase.

Transparency and objectivity in evaluation results in fairness. Will  medical schools in Canada listen?

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conbrio Newbie

conbrio

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9 minutes ago, Logic matters said:

Schools that reply on subjective measures such as ECs have been quite inconsistent in their decision, which is not unexpected - with the same ECs, one applicant accepted by one university is rejected by another. This highlights not only the subjectivity of comparing the widely differing ECs of two applicants but also the subjectivity of evaluators, specifically if groups of evaluators are used handle the large volume of applications.

Or each university has preferences for ECs, depending on their mandate and the community they serve? The ECs that NOSM is looking for, such as community volunteering in Indigenous/rural communities, would be different from the ECs that a research-heavy institution like UofT is looking for. In order to serve the specific needs of their community as well as the institution's goals, of course one applicant's ECs may be considered differently depending on the institution with good reason.

15 minutes ago, Logic matters said:

Hence, for the sake of fairness, the Universities should eliminate or minimize their use of subjective measures such as ECs. Else, at the least, they should be transparent with how widely different ECs are compared and quantified on a fair basis.

GPA or MCAT or CASPER aren't exactly objective measures either though. GPA is dependent on program, university, personal circumstances (sickness, low socioeconomic status, conflicts with other commitments such as part-time jobs). The MCAT is standardized for the average person, which means that people who fall outside of that average, such as people who are dyslexic or where English is their second language, are disadvantaged. CASPER, I won't get into because there literally is no transparency- they don't tell you what your score is or how it's evaluated. It's administered by a company that makes a profit from these tests, so there's a conflict of interest that may affect the test's objectiveness.

While I agree more transparency may be beneficial, eliminating or minimizing ECs seems to me that it's missing the forest for the trees.

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Nik- Newbie

Nik-

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On 3/17/2020 at 11:02 PM, coconut_bao said:

did you get an invite last year ?? 

I've never had an invite in 3 cycles. I've always been rejected from everywhere by the end of January.

 

Still no rejection!!!! I love the suspense. I always described toronto as my lottery ticket since I'm only at 3.79cgpa (not eligible for weighting) and it really feels like it now hahaha

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premed72 Rookie

premed72

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6 hours ago, Logic matters said:

Hence, for the sake of fairness, the Universities should eliminate or minimize their use of subjective measures such as ECs

I will have to kindly disagree with this. How can you possibly know who the applicant is by just looking at a set of numbers? I also dont think you need some next level EC to stand out. I think they look for applicants that take whatever experience they have and know how to find meaning in it and express what they learnt from the experience. They dont rate ECs based on the title. For example, curing a disease in Africa = 10pts but flipping burgers = 2pts. They objectify the EC based on how the applicant expresses meaning in those experiences. Some people come from different backgrounds and yes they are exposed to different opportunities. But everyone has the capacity to think about why they did this, what I learnt, how I failed, how i succeeded etc. That shows some humanism that a GPA cant show. I think they convert subjective components into an objective evaluation based on some qualities you can express as a human. They dont have a sheet of paper with boxes and each box has a list of what an applicant should have. 

 

6 hours ago, Logic matters said:

Added to this  subjectivity is the “rolling admissions” of UT. How can a set of applications be evaluated, ranked, and offered interview without the knowledge on the remaining set of applications, specifically when the number of interview slots are limited?

 The number of interview slots are limited and but the number of remaining applicants are limited too. The ratio ends up being the same from one pool to the next. 

6 hours ago, Logic matters said:

90% of the applicants (rejected) put their career on the line (without opting for engineering for example), spend a lot of time and money, and pursue ECs blindly without knowing if it would impress the evaluators or not.

Whoever does this got bad advice. You shouldn't be doing ECs to check off a box. Maybe that's why these people dont "stand out". You're suppose to do things you like. I think there is a strong correlation between what you like and how well you can express your passions in an essay. If I hated hospital volunteering I prob would write a pretty dusty essay for example. 

Anyway, sorry for long reply. These are my thoughts! 

Cheers 

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