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COVID-19 Impact on Electives and Clerkships

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Canadian Medical School response to COVID-19 (reply to my comment and I will update):

UBC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofA: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

USask: No clerks in Emergency Department.

UofM: Clerks continue on clinical activity.

UWO: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Mac: Clerks continue on clinical activity with modifications (no seeing COVID-19 positive or suspicious for COVID-19 patients. No participation in procedures requiring PPE).

UofT: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Queens: ???

UOttawa: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

NOSM3rd year clerks pulled from rural clerkship. 4th year clerks continue on cores and electives.

McGill: Clerks pulled from clinical activity March 16th - 29th inclusive.

LavalClerks continue on clinical activity.

SherbrookeClerks pulled from clinical activity.

UdeMontrealClerks pulled from clinical activity.

DalhousieClerks continue on clinical activity.

MUN: ???

 

 

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McMaster is keeping clerks also on their core rotations, in spite of students emailing admin and indicating we don't feel safe and Mac having pulled OT/PT/nursing students. No one seems to care at the admin level and no one is attempting to address our concerns about availability of PPE, undifferentiated emerg patients etc.

Very disappointed in my program

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11 minutes ago, swoman said:

Canadian Medical School response to COVID-19 (reply to my comment and I will update):

UBC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofA: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

USask: No clerks in Emergency Department.

UofM: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UWO: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Mac: Clerks continue on clinical activity with modifications (no seeing COVID-19 positive or suspicious for COVID-19 patients. No participation in procedures requiring PPE).

UofT: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Queens: ???

UOttawa: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

NOSM: ???

McGill: ???

Laval: ???

Sherbrooke: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UdeMontreal: ???

Dalhousie: ???

MUN: ???

 

 

McGill clerkship activities suspended from March 16th - 29th inclusive.

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11 minutes ago, NeedACar said:

McMaster is keeping clerks also on their core rotations, in spite of students emailing admin and indicating we don't feel safe and Mac having pulled OT/PT/nursing students. No one seems to care at the admin level and no one is attempting to address our concerns about availability of PPE, undifferentiated emerg patients etc.

Very disappointed in my program

Mac is usually so considering of their student body - shocked to see that they're not budging on this.

It's a really bad look for them considering UofT, Ottawa and Western have already pulled clerks out. 

All it takes is one student to get infected for them to get backlash

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20 minutes ago, swoman said:

Canadian Medical School response to COVID-19 (reply to my comment and I will update):

UBC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofA: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

USask: No clerks in Emergency Department.

UofM: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UWO: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Mac: Clerks continue on clinical activity with modifications (no seeing COVID-19 positive or suspicious for COVID-19 patients. No participation in procedures requiring PPE).

UofT: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Queens: ???

UOttawa: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

NOSM: ???

McGill: ???

Laval: ???

Sherbrooke: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UdeMontreal: ???

Dalhousie: ???

MUN: ???

 

 

UofM has not pulled clerks yet 

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16 minutes ago, NeedACar said:

McMaster is keeping clerks also on their core rotations, in spite of students emailing admin and indicating we don't feel safe and Mac having pulled OT/PT/nursing students. No one seems to care at the admin level and no one is attempting to address our concerns about availability of PPE, undifferentiated emerg patients etc.

Very disappointed in my program

You all need to form a united front and not show up. Get the hell out of there

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5 minutes ago, omentum said:

Mac is usually so considering of their student body - shocked to see that they're not budging on this.

It's a really bad look for them considering UofT, Ottawa and Western have already pulled clerks out. 

All it takes is one student to get infected for them to get backlash

Agreed! Super disappointed.

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NOSM pulled 3rd year students from their rural clerkships a few days ago, but business as usual for 4th years on cores and electives

Edit: 4th years not to be involved with suspected COVID-19 cases

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Honestly if McMaster wasn't considering my safety, I'd just say I travelled and need to self-isolate for 14 days based on Public Health's recommendations 

27 minutes ago, NeedACar said:

McMaster is keeping clerks also on their core rotations, in spite of students emailing admin and indicating we don't feel safe and Mac having pulled OT/PT/nursing students. No one seems to care at the admin level and no one is attempting to address our concerns about availability of PPE, undifferentiated emerg patients etc.

Very disappointed in my program

 

9 minutes ago, MBDTF said:

Agreed! Super disappointed.

 

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36 minutes ago, swoman said:

Canadian Medical School response to COVID-19 (reply to my comment and I will update):

UBC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofA: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

USask: No clerks in Emergency Department.

UofM: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UWO: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Mac: Clerks continue on clinical activity with modifications (no seeing COVID-19 positive or suspicious for COVID-19 patients. No participation in procedures requiring PPE).

UofT: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Queens: ???

UOttawa: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

NOSM: ???

McGill: ???

Laval: ???

Sherbrooke: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UdeMontreal: ???

Dalhousie: ???

MUN: ???

 

 

UdeM has pulled clerks from their rotations as well.

Laval has not, for now.

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43 minutes ago, swoman said:

Canadian Medical School response to COVID-19 (reply to my comment and I will update):

UBC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofA: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

USask: No clerks in Emergency Department.

UofM: Clerks continue on clinical activity.

UWO: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Mac: Clerks continue on clinical activity with modifications (no seeing COVID-19 positive or suspicious for COVID-19 patients. No participation in procedures requiring PPE).

UofT: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Queens: ???

UOttawa: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

NOSM3rd year clerks pulled from rural clerkship. 4th year clerks continue on cores and electives.

McGill: Clerks pulled from clinical activity March 16th - 29th inclusive.

LavalClerks continue on clinical activity.

SherbrookeClerks pulled from clinical activity.

UdeMontrealClerks pulled from clinical activity.

DalhousieClerks continue on clinical activity.

MUN: ???

 

 

Updated - thanks everyone

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1 hour ago, NeedACar said:

McMaster is keeping clerks also on their core rotations, in spite of students emailing admin and indicating we don't feel safe and Mac having pulled OT/PT/nursing students. No one seems to care at the admin level and no one is attempting to address our concerns about availability of PPE, undifferentiated emerg patients etc.

Very disappointed in my program

This is an unfair characterization that isn’t necessarily true. Mac circulated an email to c2021 today that said that clerks who feel it is unsafe for them to work should bring up these concerns with their supervisor, clerkship director, or student affairs and alternative arrangements would most likely be made to alleviate stress (the email mentioned this has already happened). The email also suggested the possibility of students taking a leave of absence during this time if they feel it is necessary and suggested resources to explore this. 
 

I think this is very fair of Mac, under the circumstances. They are allowing clerks to safely take part in clinical work without pressuring them to. 

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3 minutes ago, premed647 said:

This is an unfair characterization that isn’t necessarily true. Mac circulated an email to c2021 today that said that clerks who feel it is unsafe for them to work should bring up these concerns with their supervisor, clerkship director, or student affairs and alternative arrangements would most likely be made to alleviate stress (the email mentioned this has already happened). The email also suggested the possibility of students taking a leave of absence during this time if they feel it is necessary and suggested resources to explore this. 
 

I think this is very fair of Mac, under the circumstances. They are allowing clerks to safely take part in clinical work without pressuring them to. 

Perhaps that has been the experience in c2021. There are several of my classmates in c2020 who have brought forward instances of feeling unsafe, being exposed to possible COVID positive individuals and they did not feel heard by administration. 
Individual streams are contacting their respective clerkship directors saying that they feel there is a matter of public health safety (beyond personal safety) that is not being addressed with the current policies. In spite of this, clerkship directors are referring back to UGME, creating an endless loop of finger pointing. 

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6 hours ago, swoman said:

Canadian Medical School response to COVID-19 (reply to my comment and I will update):

UBC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofA: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

UofC: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

USask: No clerks in Emergency Department.

UofM: Clerks continue on clinical activity.

UWO: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Mac: Clerks continue on clinical activity with modifications (no seeing COVID-19 positive or suspicious for COVID-19 patients. No participation in procedures requiring PPE).

UofT: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

Queens: ???

UOttawa: Clerks pulled from clinical activity.

NOSM3rd year clerks pulled from rural clerkship. 4th year clerks continue on cores and electives.

McGill: Clerks pulled from clinical activity March 16th - 29th inclusive.

LavalClerks continue on clinical activity.

SherbrookeClerks pulled from clinical activity.

UdeMontrealClerks pulled from clinical activity.

DalhousieClerks continue on clinical activity.

MUN: ???

 

 

The only information that Queen's has provided is an FAQ on the Faculty of Health Sciences website. I'm not in medicine (just in the Faculty of Health Sciences) so I don't have the email sent from the head of the School of Medicine, just the email from the Dean of Health Sciences:

Quote

I am a student working in a clinical setting. Should I still be providing patient care?

Students will be expected to continue to provide patient care, except in cases where a COVID-19 infection is under investigation, presumptive or confirmed.

 

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42 minutes ago, IMislove said:

Clerks (Queens) have this week off, and then two weeks online AFAIK right now. Pre clerks have march break RN and then two weeks online class as well.

Any idea when the online curriculum looks like for Queens 3rd year clerks? I think there will be a shift towards online education for clerks but curious how schools are going to implement this if clerks are on different streams and on such a short notice.

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24 minutes ago, HateTheSystem said:

Any idea when the online curriculum looks like for Queens 3rd year clerks? I think there will be a shift towards online education for clerks but curious how schools are going to implement this if clerks are on different streams and on such a short notice.

No idea for clerks, I know for us pre we will have class be streamed live (just a prof teaching an empty room) and modules. 

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9 hours ago, NeedACar said:

Perhaps that has been the experience in c2021. There are several of my classmates in c2020 who have brought forward instances of feeling unsafe, being exposed to possible COVID positive individuals and they did not feel heard by administration. 
Individual streams are contacting their respective clerkship directors saying that they feel there is a matter of public health safety (beyond personal safety) that is not being addressed with the current policies. In spite of this, clerkship directors are referring back to UGME, creating an endless loop of finger pointing. 

Same at Sherbrooke. They literally sent us an email saying the top priority was allowing us to complete our degree in time. Not safety. Because completing 2 weeks in a rotation completely unrelated to what I matched to > safety.

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NOSM had a school wide meeting this morning (that clerks were not excused from duties to attend). They made no changes for clerks currently still on clinical activity from my last post - the message was basically to keep calm and carry on and that "the situation could resolve quicker than expected."

I'm unimpressed to say the least - it's a pandemic, things are not going back to normal in the next couple days.

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To the premeds following along, if you have multiple acceptances, it's worth looking at how the different schools respond to a pandemic. Do you want to attend the school that puts your safety at risk by having you continue with rotations as though nothing's going on, or do you want to attend the one that pulls clerks away from their duties while providing a virtual alternative to ensure that it's still possible to graduate on time?

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2 hours ago, med4242 said:

NOSM had a school wide meeting this morning (that clerks were not excused from duties to attend). They made no changes for clerks currently still on clinical activity from my last post - the message was basically to keep calm and carry on and that "the situation could resolve quicker than expected."

I'm unimpressed to say the least - it's a pandemic, things are not going back to normal in the next couple days.

Wow that's really disappointing.

So NOSM and McMaster (to an extent) re the only schools in Ontario who haven't suspended clerkship yet...

 

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3 hours ago, Snowmen said:

Same at Sherbrooke. They literally sent us an email saying the top priority was allowing us to complete our degree in time. Not safety. Because completing 2 weeks in a rotation completely unrelated to what I matched to > safety.

 

2 hours ago, med4242 said:

NOSM had a school wide meeting this morning (that clerks were not excused from duties to attend). They made no changes for clerks currently still on clinical activity from my last post - the message was basically to keep calm and carry on and that "the situation could resolve quicker than expected."

I'm unimpressed to say the least - it's a pandemic, things are not going back to normal in the next couple days.

 

46 minutes ago, FrankTheTank said:

MUN clerks are still on rotations too

It’s a bizzarre reaction given that so many other schools are pulling the clerks. Making accommodations so that students can graduate on time will be a country wide problem - they aren’t going to be able to hold back a year’s worth of medical students. We will all almost certainly complete our degrees on time.

If it does end up resolving in a week or two... then great. We only missed a couple weeks of rotations, which is really not a big deal and can be made up or honestly just accepted as necessary in the face of all this. And we go back to usual.

But if it doesn’t resolve and things get as bad as they are predicting, then having had clerks continue will have been a significant safety risk for patients and students, and could very well have contributed to making things worse.

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2 hours ago, frenchpress said:

 

 

It’s a bizzarre reaction given that so many other schools are pulling the clerks. Making accommodations so that students can graduate on time will be a country wide problem - they aren’t going to be able to hold back a year’s worth of medical students. We will all almost certainly complete our degrees on time.

If it does end up resolving in a week or two... then great. We only missed a couple weeks of rotations, which is really not a big deal and can be made up or honestly just accepted as necessary in the face of all this. And we go back to usual.

But if it doesn’t resolve and things get as bad as they are predicting, then having had clerks continue will have been a significant safety risk for patients and students, and could very well have contributed to making things worse.

 

Similar to what it sounds like is happening at Mac, students at NOSM were told that alternative arrangements could be made if they were in high risk groups - since they have an idea of alternate plans, I'm not sure why they aren't putting them in place for everyone to mitigate risk with all the uncertainty right now.

For anyone who is interested (premeds take note...) here is the school's page with current info https://www.nosm.ca/our-community/coronavirus-information-for-nosm-community/

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