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drake19

Royal college request for special meeting

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I saw this letter circulating from Frcpc members addressed to the frcpc ceo.....that oppose the decision to defer frcpc exams and offered suggestions I.e. create alternative path among other suggestions, is there one such letter for the lmcc exams? 
 

I get the sense that regulating bodies in Canada are a lot more strict....so assuming any changes in their decision are a long shot

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2 hours ago, drake19 said:

I saw this letter circulating from Frcpc members addressed to the frcpc ceo.....that oppose the decision to defer frcpc exams and offered suggestions I.e. create alternative path among other suggestions, is there one such letter for the lmcc exams? 
 

I get the sense that regulating bodies in Canada are a lot more strict....so assuming any changes in their decision are a long shot

Probably - they just in fact sent out an email explaining why they did what they did - and mentioned Sept 2020 would be the earliest time they can hold the exams. They also said people would be giving at least 6 weeks notice (which in their slow way of doing things means they have to be 100% sure 6 weeks in advance so they won't be in a hurry). I am not sure how that will work with all of the examiners either - most staff schedules are pretty rigid at least for some. 

I have a lot of friends that are going through this - just about to be ready to practice and then this - it is very hard. The worst is the exam studying - you cannot just "stay in exam mode" - you will very quickly run out of steam. Plus there are now jobs on hold, lives on hold, at a fragile time. We may be stuck not doing anything about it as priorities are elsewhere but we have to respect the sacrifice this truly is. 

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It’s probably the best thing going though, since nothing else has had any luck. 
 

The CPSO’s new idea is to issue us 6 month restricted licenses with supervision. Which leaves zero leeway in the event that the exam needs to be postponed again. Not to mention the whole supervision thing. 
 

Even if you fail the exam you get a three year restricted license so that you have multiple chances.  I’m not sure why we are getting a worse deal than someone who actually failed. 

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Yeah, this is all assuming that people will be able to sit the September exams. People will have planned mat leave (although I do know one mom who delivered twins and passed the exam a month later), will want post pandemic vacations for wellness, or dealing with probate  because their own family members passed (this is a pandemic, remember). Just because the royal college delayed things shouldn’t mean that the examiners have to do it on their timeline, either. 6 months is too short.

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It's looking like the only hope left though now. They have just about enough to secure the special meeting so will be interesting to follow what comes of it. Some big names and support on the petition as well like the former dean of U of T and Chair of medicine at U of T. Fingers crossed!

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they don't seem to have much incentive to do anything. Many the leaders at the college are leaders in other areas involved in dealing with the crisis (as an example the head of our radiology royal college exam just happens to be the head of the Canadian Thoracic Radiology Society - that sort of thing is not exactly uncommon). Mostly likely this will have tapered down by July 1 (we all hope) so the argument we need to rush people into a ready state to fight this is likely not really all that solid. 

None of these is me saying we should work to finding a better solution - we should absolutely. only that it is hard to get the college to do things quickly in the best of times, and now there are reasons to make it even worse. 

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I doubt the colleges will change their mind. The decision to postpone the exam protects the health of residents and examiners. The decision to delay the full exam, instead of waiving it, or having an impromptu alternative pathway, protects the public from unproven residents. With regards to Covid-19, the situation is serious, but not dire.

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I should also mention from the health care point of view - there is always onboarding and just getting used to things. You cannot just magically drop all the trainees even with their exams out there on July 1 and have them do anything. Many where going to start their practises up (so they don't yet have a roster), and many others would still have to get familiar in their new centres to be effective. That further stretches out the time of things. 

again doesn't mean that there aren't other options we could and should explore to speed this up.

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1 hour ago, Intrepid86 said:

I doubt the colleges will change their mind. The decision to postpone the exam protects the health of residents and examiners. The decision to delay the full exam, instead of waiving it, or having an impromptu alternative pathway, protects the public from unproven residents. With regards to Covid-19, the situation is serious, but not dire.

Plus doctors cannot exactly set a bad example by disobeying all the guidelines - no inter-province travel, no groups more than 10, and so on. 

I can see the college simply saying delaying exam protects the public the best (same standards as always) and that is the primary goal (a long time ago I was told that the various colleges are not your friend - they aren't out to get you either but they will protect their mandate over individuals without a second thought). 

 

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I stand by my original proposed solution.  Give the written either in groups of less than 10 invigilated by the programs or online, and waive the oral portion or have it given locally.

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1 minute ago, ellorie said:

I stand by my original proposed solution.  Give the written either in groups of less than 10 invigilated by the programs or online, and waive the oral portion or have it given locally.

or set up heaven forbid some from of video conferencing system. 

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38 minutes ago, ellorie said:

I stand by my original proposed solution.  Give the written either in groups of less than 10 invigilated by the programs or online, and waive the oral portion or have it given locally.

Given the written in less than 10 invigilated by the programs, and have us signed affidavit that we won't sue the Royal College/CCFP if we do get infected with COVID-19.

For the oral exam, do it via Zoom or Skype, or secure IT platform.

There are ways of making it happen, but they don't want to and instead giving the final year Ontario residents with restricted license which require supervision. In the time of pandemic, I am deeply frustrated by the lack of common sense by CPSO. https://www.cpso.on.ca/Physicians/Your-Practice/Physician-Advisory-Services/COVID-19-FAQs-for-Physicians

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9 hours ago, rmorelan said:

or set up heaven forbid some from of video conferencing system. 

Any of that would have been the go to solution. But now that they’ve announced the hiatus, people have stopped studying for the moment. Should have did that up front and kept the momentum. It’s been botched, and that should be on them.

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Why doesn’t Canada have the same process as in the US where physicians can be hired and fully licensed as board eligible with the expectation that said physician ultimately achieves board certification within a specified number of years?

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11 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

Given the written in less than 10 invigilated by the programs, and have us signed affidavit that we won't sue the Royal College/CCFP if we do get infected with COVID-19.

For the oral exam, do it via Zoom or Skype, or secure IT platform.

There are ways of making it happen, but they don't want to and instead giving the final year Ontario residents with restricted license which require supervision. In the time of pandemic, I am deeply frustrated by the lack of common sense by CPSO. https://www.cpso.on.ca/Physicians/Your-Practice/Physician-Advisory-Services/COVID-19-FAQs-for-Physicians

ha the college would never set something up where they are so likely to get sued they have to ask you to wave something :) I am not sure that would even hold up legally. Plus what if even one person declines to do that - you cannot make them sit out the exam, and you cannot create a new exam easily (which is what they are trying to avoid - it takes them months and months to create one of those). 

For many programs there are few enough people you could really just split them up. Not that hard to find separate rooms for that (offices? along a long hallway after hours....?) I mean it could be done. 

I also think they want an all or nothing solution - either everyone gets to write them in all programs (including those people NOT in a Can residency that are allowed to write it as many are for a bunch of reasons). It does get a lot harder with bigger programs I suppose. Harder but still possible. 

Figuring out how to get that out of the way would at least make it easier to do the follow up plan for the Oral exams. 

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On 3/27/2020 at 5:58 PM, insidious said:

It might also be the college doesn't want to lose control of licensing.  Having residents move into practice without passing the exam would show it's not necessary.

 

For most things, $$ is almost always the answer.

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It's the only option that is realistic at this point. Now if only they'd come to that conclusion several months ago when it still would have been possible for them to give the written, and we would all be fine right now.

I've been saying it this whole time.  They needed to push out the written exams in March before the shit hit the fan.  And now it's too late.

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