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May 12 Countdown Thread 2020

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3 minutes ago, fingerscrossed2020 said:

As a non-buttoner who ranked a regional campus as my top choice... if that button means regional campus offer, god I wish I was in that boat (goes without saying I'd love a hamilton offer too ofc)

If you ranked regional campus first and you were offered, you would definitely get it

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For the OMSAS midnight offers last year, did all applicants who received offers on D-Day also see an offer on OMSAS at midnight? Or were there some applicants who did not see an offer on OMSAS at midnight but received an offer the morning after?

Trying to decide whether I should check OMSAS at midnight or not lol... :P

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17 minutes ago, MedGoldfish said:

For the OMSAS midnight offers last year, did all applicants who received offers on D-Day also see an offer on OMSAS at midnight? Or were there some applicants who did not see an offer on OMSAS at midnight but received an offer the morning after?

Trying to decide whether I should check OMSAS at midnight or not lol... :P

you know like i know like everybody knows that you’re going to check at midnight :lol:  we all are 

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22 minutes ago, MedGoldfish said:

For the OMSAS midnight offers last year, did all applicants who received offers on D-Day also see an offer on OMSAS at midnight? Or were there some applicants who did not see an offer on OMSAS at midnight but received an offer the morning after?

Trying to decide whether I should check OMSAS at midnight or not lol... :P

I have anecdotedly heard of those who did not see an offer at midnight but received one but have not seen it reflected in a posting on here. If youve an offer at midnight, you def have the offer for real. If you dont, you may get an offer in the email or be waitlisted (OMSAS doesnt know if youre waitlisted or rejected)

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Source code for button: <input type="submit" name="resetButton" id="resetButton" value="Reset Responses" class="btn btn-default" /></span></div></table></form></div><hr /><ul class="arrow"><li><a href="/apply/omsas/en_CA/program/browse">Add Program</a></li><li>Proceed to <a href="/apply/omsas/en_CA/program-additional/index">Additional University Details</a></li></ul></div>

It says its a default button - ergo its meaningless and should appear for everyone at some point - mystery solved!

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39 minutes ago, MedGoldfish said:

For the OMSAS midnight offers last year, did all applicants who received offers on D-Day also see an offer on OMSAS at midnight? Or were there some applicants who did not see an offer on OMSAS at midnight but received an offer the morning after?

Trying to decide whether I should check OMSAS at midnight or not lol... :P

I definitely want to hear more about this if anyone knows more, just to have a glimpse of hope if that offer doesn’t show up for me at midnight... sigh

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6 minutes ago, conditional knockout said:

I definitely want to hear more about this if anyone knows more, just to have a glimpse of hope if that offer doesn’t show up for me at midnight... sigh

Your nickname gives me PTSD on the Drosophila experiments I did

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20 minutes ago, William Osler said:

Source code for button: <input type="submit" name="resetButton" id="resetButton" value="Reset Responses" class="btn btn-default" /></span></div></table></form></div><hr /><ul class="arrow"><li><a href="/apply/omsas/en_CA/program/browse">Add Program</a></li><li>Proceed to <a href="/apply/omsas/en_CA/program-additional/index">Additional University Details</a></li></ul></div>

It says its a default button - ergo its meaningless and should appear for everyone at some point - mystery solved!

I never thought I'd be debating the meaning of website design classes but here I am. 

The "default" bit is a reference to style, not purpose. It has nothing to do with the button purpose. 

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34541954/why-class-btn-btn-default-instead-of-only-class-btn-default

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3 minutes ago, MedicineLCS said:

I never thought I'd be debating the meaning of website design classes but here I am. 

The "default" bit is a reference to style, not purpose. It has nothing to do with the button purpose. 

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34541954/why-class-btn-btn-default-instead-of-only-class-btn-default

Seems like you know a bit about programming, what would this mean when I hover over the space where the reset button should have been? (as a non-buttoner)

image.png.65318995042e16ebfd5f2d57fd388a12.png

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12 minutes ago, HeyMrSnowman said:

Seems like you know a bit about programming, what would this mean when I hover over the space where the reset button should have been? (as a non-buttoner)

image.png.65318995042e16ebfd5f2d57fd388a12.png

From my understanding, this code is not actually where the button should have been. If you look at the highlighted portion, it's actually directly under the redbox. Also, if you look at the groups, the button appears in a different group (the small arrow to expand or minimize groups). Again, when something is labelled as class = errors, it does not necessarily mean it is an error. Classes are generally assigned for style purposes, i.e. everything with the same class will have the same style. I believe that this is for the red outline of the box, which is why it is under the class of errors, because we would normally see a red outline for any errors. It also shows up under the group for "Submit reminder", which makes me believe that it is the red outline to make it easier for people to remember to submit their responses. That's how I understood the source code.

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1 minute ago, Messorem said:

From my understanding, this code is not actually where the button should have been. If you look at the highlighted portion, it's actually directly under the redbox. Also, if you look at the groups, the button appears in a different group. Again, when something is labelled as class = errors, it does not necessarily mean it is an error. Classes are generally assigned for style purposes, i.e. everything with the same class will have the same style. I believe that this is for the red outline of the box, which is why it is under the class of errors, because we would normally see a red outline for any errors. That's my two cents and how I understood the source code.

Ahh okay thank you! So we can't infer anything from the source code, is my understanding then.

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39 minutes ago, conditional knockout said:

I definitely want to hear more about this if anyone knows more, just to have a glimpse of hope if that offer doesn’t show up for me at midnight... sigh

I saw this in an old post so I think there is hope??

 

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13 minutes ago, MedGoldfish said:

So the button is not accidental?

I think the button is a mistake, in the sense that it serves no purpose unless we have offers. Whether or not it is indicative of an offer, I have no idea :) The source code would not say anything as far as I'm aware.

I personally believe that a button may be a good sign because it is something that affects only Mac interviewees but not all and the purpose of the button is related to an offer. Although, similarly to OMSAS showing offers at midnight, I would not say that if you do not have a button, you are rejected. Of course this is all speculation. We are only two days away from finding out, so stay strong guys!

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Perhaps if anyone knows highschool applicants who didnt get in this year could check whether they have a button or not. This can give an indication of what the button means. I checked for kids who got in this year and they do have the button 

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7 hours ago, AgainOmsasSmh said:

The most creepy thing in this thread -in my humble opinion- is how Mac students and graduates are trying to justify this weird flawed lottery decision that no other school in Canada even came close to, and trying to convince applicants to “just swallow it, because well life is unfair so what you gonna do about it?”. 

This goes to show you that people are willing to defend their social group’s acts no matter how bizarre and illogical they deem. No wonder nationalism, which is a more public example of the same attitude, is the biggest problem of today’s world.

As someone who doesn't go to Mac, I can tell you this happens at all of the schools. Med students often forget where they came from ... 

For those of you who get multiple offers, I would strongly advise against going to Mac. Imposter syndrome will be real. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, wowfactor said:

* UPDATED with Proxy Casper Measure *:)

I divided you guys into 3 groups. 

1. People with Button

GPA 3.58 / 131 - BUTTON 

GPA 3.83 / 128 - BUTTON

GPA 3.92 / 127 - BUTTON

GPA 3.93 /129 - BUTTON

GPA 3.6 / 130 - BUTTON

GPA 3.96 / 125 - BUTTON

GPA 3.79 / 128 - BUTTON

GPA 3.75 / 129 - BUTTON

GPA 3.85 / 128 - BUTTON

GPA 3.91 / 127 - BUTTON

GPA 3.92 / 129 - BUTTON

GPA 3.90 / 128 - BUTTON

GPA 3.91 / 129 - BUTTON

GPA 3.96 / 129 - BUTTON

GPA 3.95 / 130 (did not apply to Casper-heavy school) - BUTTON

GPA 3.99 / 129 (did not apply to Casper-heavy school) - BUTTON

GPA 3.85 / 131 - BUTTON

GPA 3.96 / 130 (Rejection from UOttawa) - BUTTON

GPA 3.98 / 130 (Rejection from UOttawa) - BUTTON

 

2. People without Button with higher stats (GPA 3.95+ AND CARS 129+)

GPA 3.98 / 132 (Invitation from UOttawa)- NO BUTTON

GPA 3.97 / 130 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 4.0 / 131 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

Another GPA 4.0 / 131(Casper ?) - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.95+(?) / 131 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 4.0 / 129 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

Another GPA 4.0 / 129 (Casper?)- NO BUTTON

GPA 3.98 / 130 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

Another GPA 3.98 / 130 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.98 / 129 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.97 / 129 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 4.0 / 130 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.96 / 130 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.97 / 132 (Casper?) - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.95  / 130 (Invitation from UOttawa) - NO BUTTON

 

3. People without Button with similar stats with people with Button

GPA 3.87 / 125 - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.96 / 128 - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.84 / 132 - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.89 / 129 - NO BUTTON

GPA 3.90 / 129 - NO BUTTON

The button should mean something, and I am really excited to see which one (group 1 or 3 ) will be accepted at Mac with group 2. Every one of us must be curious about it, so let's add button/no button on the acceptance/ rejection thread. 

Great Casper score seems to be required in addition to the high GPA and CARS stats to be in the top 100.

plz add mine - BUTTON - GPA 3.97, CARS 127, (interviewed at ottawa) 

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5 hours ago, WeDayDream said:

As someone who doesn't go to Mac, I can tell you this happens at all of the schools. Med students often forget where they came from ... 

For those of you who get multiple offers, I would strongly advise against going to Mac. Imposter syndrome will be real. 

 

 

I don't think we should be strongly advising applicants against going to Mac because of this. I think all applicants who received an offer at Mac should be proud. At the end of the day, being the top 500 at Mac is a huge achievement to begin with since Mac does not consider ABS and it is solely based on Casper, cGPA, CARS. So out of 5000 applicants, you were the top 500. That's big and that alone should reassure applicants that they are well deserving of their spot in the top 500.

Those who received an offer won't even know if it was because of the lottery or if it was because they made it to the top 100 (out of 500, out of 5000, still a huge achievement). Even for those with a lower cGPA and CARS, they can still be in the top 100 because we have no idea how they scored the top 100 (could be 70% Casper, which is a blackbox). 

If you're one of the lucky ones that made it via lottery (which you won't even know), you should still be proud! No one that received an interview to begin with isn't deserving of an acceptance because at the end of the day, Mac is very numerical is picking the top 500.

 

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24 minutes ago, theinbetween said:

I don't think we should be strongly advising applicants against going to Mac because of this. I think all applicants who received an offer at Mac should be proud. At the end of the day, being the top 500 at Mac is a huge achievement to begin with since Mac does not consider ABS and it is solely based on Casper, cGPA, CARS. So out of 5000 applicants, you were the top 500. That's big and that alone should reassure applicants that they are well deserving of their spot in the top 500.

Those who received an offer won't even know if it was because of the lottery or if it was because they made it to the top 100 (out of 500, out of 5000, still a huge achievement). Even for those with a lower cGPA and CARS, they can still be in the top 100 because we have no idea how they scored the top 100 (could be 70% Casper, which is a blackbox). 

If you're one of the lucky ones that made it via lottery (which you won't even know), you should still be proud! No one that received an interview to begin with isn't deserving of an acceptance because at the end of the day, Mac is very numerical is picking the top 500.

 

Didn’t they say pre interview score for top 100?

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15 minutes ago, MDLD said:

Didn’t they say pre interview score for top 100?

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's  33% Casper...but even then people with very high stats might not be on top 100 if their Casper was sub par

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1 hour ago, theinbetween said:

I don't think we should be strongly advising applicants against going to Mac because of this. I think all applicants who received an offer at Mac should be proud. At the end of the day, being the top 500 at Mac is a huge achievement to begin with since Mac does not consider ABS and it is solely based on Casper, cGPA, CARS. So out of 5000 applicants, you were the top 500. That's big and that alone should reassure applicants that they are well deserving of their spot in the top 500.

Those who received an offer won't even know if it was because of the lottery or if it was because they made it to the top 100 (out of 500, out of 5000, still a huge achievement). Even for those with a lower cGPA and CARS, they can still be in the top 100 because we have no idea how they scored the top 100 (could be 70% Casper, which is a blackbox). 

If you're one of the lucky ones that made it via lottery (which you won't even know), you should still be proud! No one that received an interview to begin with isn't deserving of an acceptance because at the end of the day, Mac is very numerical is picking the top 500.

 

I agree – getting the interview at Mac is in and of itself a huge accomplishment. Further to that, those who are expressing concern about the future of those selected in this class – well I mean it isn't like there are not other checks and balances along the path to actually becoming a physician. Getting into med school is perhaps only the first hurdle on the path (albeit a huge one), but not the only one. 

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While the evidence given by McMaster for the new admission process is reasonable, the disappointment and anger expressed by many here is understandable. Those that fear stigma and those that sneer at the apparently unscientific process may want to look the spread among assessed components that determine the rank. Here is an approximation of the spread.

The published admission statistics for the class of 2022 indicates the spread for GPa among 205 admitted students to be from 3.5 – 4.0 (ignoring the 2 in 3.0 – 3.5 range). This is similar to the spread in the statistics posted here for interview invitees of 2020. As a percentage/percentile, this is 87.5 to 100 and 1/3 of that used for interview ranking would be approximately 29.2 to 33.3 – a spread of 4 points.

Similarly, the spread among CARS is 126 – 132 (ignoring the 2 in the 123-125 range). As a percentage/percentile, this is 95.5 – 100 and 1/3 of that used for interview ranking would be approximately 31.8 to 33.3 – a spread of 1.5 points.

While nothing is known about CASPER, 10.5 % of the total applicants have been invited for interview, suggesting they could be in the top 89 – 100 percentile. Assuming this, 1/3 what would have been used in the interview ranking would 29.6 to 33.3 – a spread of 3.5 points.

Out of a total score of 100, the maximum possible spread among the 552 interviews would be ~ 9-10 points (from 90-100). This spread is likely to the smaller among the majority of interviewees since the mean GPa/CARS for the class of 2022 are higher (94-100).  

This means the spacing between candidates (assuming equal spacing which is unlikely resulting in banding) would be ~0.018.

Since a published paper on admission statistics claims 50-54% success rate for each bin of 50 from 100 – 550, the spread in MMI scores could be more than that recorded in CASPER. This, along with the small difference in spacing, is likely to cause of high mobility in the post-interview scoring. Hence, the likely justification for McMaster not to use pre-interview ranking for the offer.

In any case, those that fear stigma know that you are not too far off in the absolute score to have gained unfairly by this lottery. Those that sneer at the lottery decision being anti-merit may take comfort that admittees with lower stats  are no slouches, with the caveat that nothing (even the above argument) can help remove the uneasy feeling of either camps.

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