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DalHali19

Admission requirements confusion?

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1 minute ago, mermaidblue said:

I am confused, did someone contact them? 

 

Yes! Several students on the waitlist and several local doctors who have mentored students during their application process have contacted Dal admissions and the assistant dean of admission regarding this “rule”.

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12 minutes ago, DalHali19 said:

Yes! Several students on the waitlist and several local doctors who have mentored students during their application process have contacted Dal admissions and the assistant dean of admission regarding this “rule”.

Oh wow! Well please keep us posted if you can. I guess it will take some time to look into matters. 

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I am a Dal med grad. A couple of years ago Dal changed their admissions requirements, essentially preventing people from switching into Med if they were doing a post grad program, before completing a post grad program. Other departments within Dal were unhappy because so many people were leaving partway through other programs, particularly Masters. 
Subsequently Dal extended this rule to apply to undergrad programs as well. As a result people who were unsuccessful in their first attempt after completing a BSc were not able to re-apply the following year if they started a different program. This was not without a lot of objection- some people took a year off school so they could reapply right away, and others did a Masters or something else and had to wait two years to reapply.

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This year, the admission requirements posted are still there in black and white-  several people have copied them to this forum, they are pretty clear. No they are not vague or confusing.  No the admission rules are not something “only Dal understands” . They are clear and they have been enforced. Until now. 
There are several examples of students who have posted their acceptance this week on social media, who are known to be partway through another program. 
Something has gone very wrong this year. Dal needs to address this and be transparent about it. 

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Students who are waitlisted should, in my view, contact Dal and ask them what they are doing to make this right. If the students we are talking about were not open and honest in their application, the admission should be revoked. If someone in admissions incorrectly told them they could apply ( even though it clearly says they cannot in the admission criteria), then I am not sure what should happen to them. At the very least an equal number of additional seats should be added to the class for the waitlisted students  or, alternatively they could be offered deferred acceptance for the following year.

This does not address the fairness issue of all the other people who followed the rules and started a new program instead of reapplying,  or people who did not start a second choice program so they could reapply fairly. 
 

I am hearing of more than just the pharm students now- someone really screwed this up. 

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If these applicants lied on their applications about being in another program (with an anticipated finish date later than Summer 2020) while applying to Dal, they should not only have their offer rescinded but also blacklisted from applying in Canada ever again. 

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1 minute ago, DalMed said:

Students who are waitlisted should, in my view, contact Dal and ask them what they are doing to make this right. If the students we are talking about were not open and honest in their application, the admission should be revoked. If someone in admissions incorrectly told them they could apply ( even though it clearly says they cannot in the admission criteria), then I am not sure what should happen to them. At the very least an equal number of additional seats should be added to the class for the waitlisted students  or, alternatively they could be offered deferred acceptance for the following year.

This does not address the fairness issue of all the other people who followed the rules and started a new program instead of reapplying,  or people who did not start a second choice program so they could reapply fairly. 
 

I am hearing of more than just the pharm students now- someone really screwed this up. 

Could you please elaborate on your last part? More than just Pharm students? Thank you. 

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37 minutes ago, DalMed said:

Students who are waitlisted should, in my view, contact Dal and ask them what they are doing to make this right. If the students we are talking about were not open and honest in their application, the admission should be revoked. If someone in admissions incorrectly told them they could apply ( even though it clearly says they cannot in the admission criteria), then I am not sure what should happen to them. At the very least an equal number of additional seats should be added to the class for the waitlisted students  or, alternatively they could be offered deferred acceptance for the following year.

This does not address the fairness issue of all the other people who followed the rules and started a new program instead of reapplying,  or people who did not start a second choice program so they could reapply fairly. 
 

I am hearing of more than just the pharm students now- someone really screwed this up. 

This is all very shocking.. Do you mind me asking, approx how many people are we talking about? 

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Hey guys, I know of 2 pharm students for sure ( know their names) and I know other students in Pharm who have confirmed this information ( they are pissed).


Other Med applicants have told me of a couple of other cases including a Masters student.  I have no confirmation on this.

 

Dal normally goes through applications early on  and discards a LOT  because they do not meet admission criteria. Somehow these applicants made it through that process. This is where it gets murky- they should have been discarded if they were enrolled in another program for that Fall. 

This is not my issue personally. I am simply confirming that a few years ago Dalhousie changed their rules so that people could not switch out mid- program, and has historically enforced this rule. The rule did not apply to just Dal students, it applied to all applicants. The stipulation on the website is very clear and has not changed. I am not sure how a few people somehow circumvented this rule, or whose fault that is. 
 

I say this with confidence because a lot of people were very unhappy about this requirement when it first came out, and complained. Dal stood firm on it.  I thought it was unfair, but I can see both sides- other faculties felt Med was “ poaching” their students. 
 

This is a huge fairness issue this year for waitlisted students. As in it could even become a legal dispute. My advice is to go to Dal and point this out, and ask them to make it right. This is your responsibility to look into, please don’t pm me and ask me to do it. I have already sent a short email to The assistant Dean.

I am sure they will Handle things differently next year and enforce the requirement, or change it.
 

I hope this works out fairly for waitlisted students who, had the admissions requirements been applied properly, would have been accepted already. 

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I wanted to jump into this topic by noting a coincidental (maybe incidental, who knows) mechanism that DalMed might use to filter through the applicants at question. On the acceptance letters, one of the paragraphs shows that DalMed must receive official transcripts from all accepted applicants in order for their admission to be validated by July 31, 2020. This could potentially catch some of these applicants that slipped through the crack, especially those who studied/are studying at Dalhousie (their transcripts are submitted automatically).

Again, not sure if this is intentional or coincidental (seems like this could have been done more efficiently so leaning towards coincidental) but it might be a saving grace for the admissions committee to disqualify applicants that are in this grey zone. Hope this helps!

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Maybe you should just be happy for the colleagues who succeeded rather than complain about them potentially withholding/lying to the admissions committee about their past experience. (which would not be possible) NS now has ~100 seats, so it's not their (pharmacy students/grads/dropouts) fault you didn't get in. Career planning is part of this process, and we shouldn't lose sight of that. 

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3 minutes ago, Brolinkwins said:

Maybe you should just be happy for the colleagues who succeeded rather than complain about them potentially withholding/lying to the admissions committee about their past experience. (which would not be possible) NS now has ~100 seats, so it's not their (pharmacy students/grads/dropouts) fault you didn't get in. Career planning is part of this process, and we shouldn't lose sight of that. 

That’s the whole point... people would be choosing other options to move forward/closer to a career (if med does not work out) if they knew that they had the option to do so while keep applying at the same time. This is a fairness issue, not a “be happy for the people who did get in and stop being bitter” issue lol.

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NS does not have 100 seats first of all, they have 84 this year. Which is not much. And actually lying/witholding information is unethical and any doctor would be legally liable for that. So this is not only about who rightfully deserves those spots, this is an issue of integrity. 

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I know a few pharmacy people who got the green light with admissions prior to applying. What's unfair is going after people who were accepted, and trying to take away their spots by complaints to the dean. 

Withholding this information is not possible because they have to submit transcripts, and you need to understand that. Which means that the admissions committee understands what they're doing when they accept their applicants. 

If you feel so strongly about this, go into pharmacy. 

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9 minutes ago, Brolinkwins said:

I know a few pharmacy people who got the green light with admissions prior to applying. What's unfair is going after people who were accepted, and trying to take away their spots by complaints to the dean. 

Withholding this information is not possible because they have to submit transcripts, and you need to understand that. Which means that the admissions committee understands what they're doing when they accept their applicants. 

If you feel so strongly about this, go into pharmacy. 

You are missing the entire point here. I have specifically said the goal here is for med admissions to CLARIFY this for everyone applying. If pharmacy students (or any other students enrolled in a graduate/undergraduate program) got the green light from admissions, THAT is the issue, because many of us did NOT get the green light in this same situation when we specifically asked about it. Please stop saying “you need to understand admissions knows what they’re doing and they can’t miss this”, that isn’t the issue. Some people in this same situation were told that they could NOT do this and get accepted, that is the problem that needs to be resolved by Dal.

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First years most definitely do not have transcripts for their programs until January, by then Dal med is done looking at grades because interviews are in November. This could have very easily been missed. 

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Somebody needs to go to the media with this story. That's really fucked up if Dal allowed certain students to circumvent what is a pretty big rule. I'm pretty sure all Ontario schools have this rule as well. It prevents students from starting programs that're longer than a year (eg 2 year MSc, PhD, other professional schools) and then dipping if they get into med. This is a really fucked up situation no matter the explaination for how those dal students got in

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1 hour ago, Brolinkwins said:

I know a few pharmacy people who got the green light with admissions prior to applying. What's unfair is going after people who were accepted, and trying to take away their spots by complaints to the dean. 

Withholding this information is not possible because they have to submit transcripts, and you need to understand that. Which means that the admissions committee understands what they're doing when they accept their applicants. 

If you feel so strongly about this, go into pharmacy. 

Do you mind expanding on ' got the green light'? 

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I think everyone's argument here is that they are breaking the rules by accepting their medical school offers without finishing their graduate program. I for one feel that if these individuals are deemed acceptable to the admissions committee based on their GPA, MCAT, extra circulars and interview then they should be accepted. That is, if they are not breaking and rules. However, if the rules of applying are breached, they shouldn't be allowed in. No grey areas, plain and simple black and white. I would hope that Dalhousie has enough accountability to ensure that these students they accepted are held to the same standard as someone in another graduate or masters program.

Sure it's upsetting for us on the waitlist, but at the end of the day they scored higher applications than we did meaning they saw them as more fitting then us. I'm ok with being ranked behind people, and I'm sure other people are too. This isn't the majority of us being salty about that. Although, I would also hope that all 1000+ applicants are held to the same standard based on the rules outlined by Dal.

And if you're upset on the waitlist think about this. Imagine being someone dying to get into pharmacy only to lose your spot to someone who uses the program as a backup plan for a single year and jumps ship to go to medical school. That's what upsets me the most.

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16 hours ago, swoman said:

If these applicants lied on their applications about being in another program (with an anticipated finish date later than Summer 2020) while applying to Dal, they should not only have their offer rescinded but also blacklisted from applying in Canada ever again. 

I really think you guys need to take a step back. These students posted their letters on Facebook, and were enrolled at Dalhousie. They clearly weren't trying to keep their admission a secret from anybody. And how could they? Their colleagues in pharm would clearly know if they dropped out for medicine.

If they unknowingly broke the rules, yes, they should have their offers rescinded. But labeling them unethical and calling for them to be blacklisted is cruel. I feel very sorry for them if this is what happened. Imagine you're in their shoes - you thought you followed all the rules, you got your letter after years of effort ... and all of a sudden your world is turned upside down. Show a little empathy.

The other possibility is that they they got an exception or contradictory information from the admissions office. In which case the anger in this thread needs to be directed at Dalhousie and not these students.

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I don’t think that a few points (or even as small as 1 point) in a highly subjective (75%) process makes those who got in more fitting than those on the waitlist. This is just my personal opinion, but I honestly think the difference comes down to luck. But if there are people who did not satisfy admissions REQUIREMENTS they need to have their offers rescinded and that’s that. 

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Their world is not being turned upside down, they’ll just have to apply fairly like everyone else who did not have the chance to apply because of these REQUIREMENTS plainly stated word by word on the admissions website which are their RESPONSIBILITY to read if they are in an academic program. Sure, if they made a genuine mistake, I feel a lot of empathy for them, but that does not mean they deserve special treatment compared to other applicants who abided by the rules. I only meant to call those who knowingly did this unethical. Yes, it seems like Dalhousie made the biggest mistakes here, but there is no way of knowing now if and which of these applicants actually got the go ahead from Dalhousie. Unless they have some proof in writing that medical admissions approved them to apply. Otherwise, they should have their offers rescinded as it says clear as day on the website. But still it says they have to be finished their program and they will not be, it makes no sense for them to be able to start in 2020.

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